H
Hydrogen
Guest
Nah, his organization is just running out of cities to bankrupt.
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Toronto Strong Contender For Olympic Games - IOC President
- Thread starter Kitsune
- Start date
Nah, his organization is just running out of cities to bankrupt.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
If a host city goes bankrupt it has little to do with the IOC unless the IOC intentionally chooses host cities based on how much public money they intend to pour into redevelopment schemes and legacy-building as part of the bid. "Bankrupt," of course, is extreme hyperbole, and the Montreal fiasco was largely confined to the stadium.
wonderboy416
Active Member
Toronto deserves to be on this list!
It's almost a who's who of the world, makes me wonder how St Louis got it in 1904... Canadian athletes would really benefit from having some world class facilities to practice in at home and Toronto would no doubt really be building a future NFL stadium rather than Olympic stadium... kind of like how they did it in Coca-Cola land.. I mean Atlanta.
London 2012
Beijing 2008
Athens 2004
Sydney 2000
Atlanta 1996
Barcelona 1992
Seoul 1988
Los Angeles 1984
Moscow 1980
Montreal 1976
Munich 1972
Mexico City 1968
Tokyo 1964
Rome 1960
Melbourne 1956
Helsinki 1952
London 1948
Berlin 1936
Los Angeles 1932
Amsterdam 1928
Paris 1924
Antwerp 1920
Stockholm 1912
London 1908
St Louis 1904
Paris 1900
Athens 1896
It's almost a who's who of the world, makes me wonder how St Louis got it in 1904... Canadian athletes would really benefit from having some world class facilities to practice in at home and Toronto would no doubt really be building a future NFL stadium rather than Olympic stadium... kind of like how they did it in Coca-Cola land.. I mean Atlanta.
London 2012
Beijing 2008
Athens 2004
Sydney 2000
Atlanta 1996
Barcelona 1992
Seoul 1988
Los Angeles 1984
Moscow 1980
Montreal 1976
Munich 1972
Mexico City 1968
Tokyo 1964
Rome 1960
Melbourne 1956
Helsinki 1952
London 1948
Berlin 1936
Los Angeles 1932
Amsterdam 1928
Paris 1924
Antwerp 1920
Stockholm 1912
London 1908
St Louis 1904
Paris 1900
Athens 1896
Mystic Point
Active Member
In case no one noticed, the City of Toronto, has basically run out of money.
Take a look at the last budget.
And as neither the Province or the Federal government has any interest in us -- Toronto -- whatsoever -- except as a cash cow for tax dollars -- the Olympic Games are nothing more than an empty daydream.
On the other hand, can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if the City, the Province and the Feds actually attempted to stage something like this?
They all despise each other. One has only to look at the looming disaster in Vancouver.
The only thing these bureaucrats and politicians excel at, is taxing citizens to feather their own nests and vast pension funds.
Take a look at the last budget.
And as neither the Province or the Federal government has any interest in us -- Toronto -- whatsoever -- except as a cash cow for tax dollars -- the Olympic Games are nothing more than an empty daydream.
On the other hand, can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if the City, the Province and the Feds actually attempted to stage something like this?
They all despise each other. One has only to look at the looming disaster in Vancouver.
The only thing these bureaucrats and politicians excel at, is taxing citizens to feather their own nests and vast pension funds.
DavidJamesTO
Active Member
It was the same year as the St Louis World's Fair, and they thought it would be a good way to drive up publicity in the early days. Didn't work out too well; hardly anybody showed up because they were attending the attractions at the Fair.
jn_12
Senior Member
St Louis got the 1904 games because they were hosting the World's Fair at the same time. The games were spread out over 6 months, so it wasn't your typical two week Olympics that we've come to know.
Vancouver isn't a looming disaster. In fact, other than the issues over the athlete's village (and those are being rectified) things are going well, and they completed construction on every venue already. A lot of venues are open and already used. It will be a very successful Olympics, there's nothing to suggest otherwise really. Even the issues of poverty and homelessness have been put to the forefront and the recent BC Budget is addressing this issue. Other good things like transit improvements and the improvements to the Sea-to-Sky Highway will leave a really strong legacy.
The fears over budgets and getting into debt are easy to throw out there because other Olympics have had trouble managing their budgets. Over 7 years any multi-million/billion dollar project, whether it's an Olympics or a building, is going to exceed the budget set. It's just the reality of fluctuating economies. Hell, look at oil prices over the last couple years. They rose by 300% and then fell by the same number. How does a preliminary budget project that? And that's just oil. Steel and other production materials fluctuate as well.
The summer Olympics in particular can really change the direction of a city, and they tend to benefit second tier cities moreso than large ones. Cities like London and Atlanta are already large economic engines. They really didn't need an Olympics to validate themselves. However, cities like Barcelona, Beijing and Sydney have really benefited from the international attention. Also, once the infrastructure is in place, the possibility of hosting other world-class events like World Championships are much easier to win. I'm not talking about hosting a football World Cup (which will never happen in Canada), but just World Championships in one of the many sports that are found in the Olympics.
Also, some of you make it sound like after the games are gone, the infrastructure will sit unused forever. Elite athlete training centres are very important and contribute not just to the quality of athletes (which has an economic benefit as well) but to things like research and development or coaching and training which can result in better programs for youths. A Central Canada Centre of Excellence is needed especially considering the size of Ontario's economy and population.
I think if done properly an Olympics can really be a catalyst for creating a stronger image of Toronto. By then our Waterfront will be done (it's not an "either or" situation, nor are we waiting for an Olympics to change things any longer) and we'll have some other important new pieces of infrastructure like Transit City and just maybe the DRL. An Olympics really would be a great way of showing the world the new Toronto that we've built. It's worked for other cities of comparable stature so I don't see why Toronto would align itself with the Atlantas of the Olympic world.
Vancouver isn't a looming disaster. In fact, other than the issues over the athlete's village (and those are being rectified) things are going well, and they completed construction on every venue already. A lot of venues are open and already used. It will be a very successful Olympics, there's nothing to suggest otherwise really. Even the issues of poverty and homelessness have been put to the forefront and the recent BC Budget is addressing this issue. Other good things like transit improvements and the improvements to the Sea-to-Sky Highway will leave a really strong legacy.
The fears over budgets and getting into debt are easy to throw out there because other Olympics have had trouble managing their budgets. Over 7 years any multi-million/billion dollar project, whether it's an Olympics or a building, is going to exceed the budget set. It's just the reality of fluctuating economies. Hell, look at oil prices over the last couple years. They rose by 300% and then fell by the same number. How does a preliminary budget project that? And that's just oil. Steel and other production materials fluctuate as well.
The summer Olympics in particular can really change the direction of a city, and they tend to benefit second tier cities moreso than large ones. Cities like London and Atlanta are already large economic engines. They really didn't need an Olympics to validate themselves. However, cities like Barcelona, Beijing and Sydney have really benefited from the international attention. Also, once the infrastructure is in place, the possibility of hosting other world-class events like World Championships are much easier to win. I'm not talking about hosting a football World Cup (which will never happen in Canada), but just World Championships in one of the many sports that are found in the Olympics.
Also, some of you make it sound like after the games are gone, the infrastructure will sit unused forever. Elite athlete training centres are very important and contribute not just to the quality of athletes (which has an economic benefit as well) but to things like research and development or coaching and training which can result in better programs for youths. A Central Canada Centre of Excellence is needed especially considering the size of Ontario's economy and population.
I think if done properly an Olympics can really be a catalyst for creating a stronger image of Toronto. By then our Waterfront will be done (it's not an "either or" situation, nor are we waiting for an Olympics to change things any longer) and we'll have some other important new pieces of infrastructure like Transit City and just maybe the DRL. An Olympics really would be a great way of showing the world the new Toronto that we've built. It's worked for other cities of comparable stature so I don't see why Toronto would align itself with the Atlantas of the Olympic world.
adma
Superstar
And remember that St. Louis ranked higher among American cities at the time, and--as the World's Fair proved--was still viewed as a "next Chicago" urban up-and-comer. Under the circumstances, it was no less illogical in its time than Atlanta was in 1996.
Nevertheless, there was something of an overreaching anticlimax about the Olympic/World's Fair doppleganger that presaged St Louis' faltering fortunes over the rest of the century--though at least it went down in mythology as the supposed birthplace/proving ground for all sorts of fast, processed, and carny food, from hot dogs to hamburgers to ice cream cones and onward...
jn_12
Senior Member
I don't think I said it was illogical to host the games in St. Louis. I simply provided the reason for why the games were held there. But thanks for the link to the population stats... it's much better than your usual post comprising of a google search for a witty picture.
St Louis and Buffalo seem to be on par in terms of their development. Both held significant events at the turn of the century and were extremely important American cities until the 30s. American hosted World's Fair's/expos seem to be exceptions to the general rule. If you look at the list of cities that have held big events (World's Fairs, Summer Olympics, etc), they tend to still be relevant and important cultural and economic centres.
St Louis and Buffalo seem to be on par in terms of their development. Both held significant events at the turn of the century and were extremely important American cities until the 30s. American hosted World's Fair's/expos seem to be exceptions to the general rule. If you look at the list of cities that have held big events (World's Fairs, Summer Olympics, etc), they tend to still be relevant and important cultural and economic centres.
wyliepoon
Senior Member
Actually the 1904 Games were supposed to be held in Chicago. Chicago won the bid for the games, but St. Louis, which was to host the Louisiana Purchase Exposition that year, did not want a rival event in Chicago and threatened to host their own games. Pierre de Coubertin gave in to St. Louis and moved the Games there. (Wikipedia)
The fact that the Games were "stolen" from Chicago in 1904 in a small way helps the 2016 bid, just like some said that Whistler losing the rights to the 1976 Winter Games actually helped them a little bit in getting the 2010 games (they were awarded the games after Denver declined to host them- eventually they were held in Innsbruck).
The fact that the Games were "stolen" from Chicago in 1904 in a small way helps the 2016 bid, just like some said that Whistler losing the rights to the 1976 Winter Games actually helped them a little bit in getting the 2010 games (they were awarded the games after Denver declined to host them- eventually they were held in Innsbruck).
H
Hydrogen
Guest
Of course it's hyperbole. It was intended to be humorous.
That being said, I think it's about time that the Olympics be reassessed. This is no longer a celebration of amateur athleticism, but a corporate-backed celebration of sporting nationalism wrapped up in hollow IOC idealism.
I'd much prefer bidding for the world cup. No pretensions there.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
The Olympics were always a celebration of sporting nationalism. Amateur athletes as they existed a hundred years ago do not exist today, so the emphasis has shifted to the actual athleticism (and why on earth would anyone think that's a bad thing?).
jn_12
Senior Member
A World Cup would be awesome, but there's no way it will ever happen in Canada. I made a post somewhere that outlined just the structural reasons why it will never happen (found it: http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?p=208002&highlight=world#post208002 ) There are some other reasons too, but the structural ones are so big that they don't really matter.
I think the best chance at a huge sporting event for Canada always will be the Olympics. The other option is to simply hold a massive event of our own for Canada's 150th anniversary. Something that combined both culture and sport. We all know that would never happen, but I think there's something to be said about the "If you build it and then throw a big party, they will come" phenomenon. Expo 86 in Vancouver didn't start as a World's Fair, and some sort of Toronto 2017 festival could follow suit. Unfortunately we all know this idea is far fetched. In fact, I wonder if the government will even do anything on the scale of all the centennial projects, never mind try and set the bar higher and top it.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Do me a favour? Look at the list of host cities posted by Wonderboy...remind me which ones of those have gone bankrupt? All of them? Most of them? Some of them? Help me out here!
Whoaccio
Senior Member
I don't get why there is so much resentment towards the Olympics. Sure, they are petty nationalistic fiscal black holes that really don't give anything for society. So what? As someone who is generally distrustful of nationalism, the Olympics have always struck me as a nationalism done right. If China has to get its rocks off about being the new kid on the block, I would much rather they do it by having pre-pubescent pygmies doing back flips than invading small countries. Maybe thats just because I am a Pole.
If the City/Province/COC decides to put in a bid though for the 2020 games, they should compare the anticipated benefits of the Olympics versus a smattering of smaller events and festivals. Someone else pointed out that with even a few hundred million dollars, Caribana could be turned into the mother of all tourism drivers. How much of a subsidy would it take to fish Comic-Con out of San Diego or CES out of Las Vegas? Conventional wisdom seems to hold that decade long multi-billion dollar mega projects (like the Olympics) tend to underestimate costs, overestimate benefits and generally less efficient than more modest programs.
If the City/Province/COC decides to put in a bid though for the 2020 games, they should compare the anticipated benefits of the Olympics versus a smattering of smaller events and festivals. Someone else pointed out that with even a few hundred million dollars, Caribana could be turned into the mother of all tourism drivers. How much of a subsidy would it take to fish Comic-Con out of San Diego or CES out of Las Vegas? Conventional wisdom seems to hold that decade long multi-billion dollar mega projects (like the Olympics) tend to underestimate costs, overestimate benefits and generally less efficient than more modest programs.
afransen
Senior Member
Olympics hosted sanely (like Vancouver, Sydney, even Atlanta, and Barcelona) are not fiscal drains on the locations that host them. The host receives billions from the IOC to host, and the incremental tax revenue tends to more or less cover government contributions. The host gets infrastructure.
There is a reason why so many cities vie for the Olympics, and it can't simply be insecurity.
There is a reason why so many cities vie for the Olympics, and it can't simply be insecurity.