Toronto St Regis Toronto Hotel and Residences | 281.93m | 58s | JFC Capital | Zeidler

stjames2queenwest said:
I bet everyone in that building feels that way and if they don't then there is something wrong with them. I hope that name goes. It's really innapropriate, and is now synonymous with discrimination.
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Unfortunately, contracts don't just protect honest folk—they protect ignorant sentient cheese doodles, too.
 
I have a suspicion that this was a dubious deal to begin with - Talon is citing problems with Trump, which may be true to some degree, but Talon just made off with a lot of money and is yet to repay over $200 million in loans. Call it what you will, but this deal had bad news written on it with or without Trump.
 
From the article: "Only 50 of the 261 hotel units, marketed as investments to buyers who earn a fee when the suites are rented, and 44 of the 118 condo units have been sold since the project’s opening in 2012, according to the documents."

Ouch.
 
What a disaster. I don't see an easy solution to this mess either. I don't think changing the name will help a whole lot. Who wants to pay top dollar to live in a tower shoehorned in the financial district with little to no views. The interior finishes are no longer current with trends either. Whoever buys it will have to probably throw hundreds of millions on top to completely renovate and/or reinvent the tower.
 
maestro said:
What a disaster. I don't see an easy solution to this mess either. I don't think changing the name will help a whole lot. Who wants to pay top dollar to live in a tower shoehorned in the financial district with little to no views. The interior finishes are no longer current with trends either. Whoever buys it will have to probably throw hundreds of millions on top to completely renovate and/or reinvent the tower.
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It's not the level of disaster here that you're claiming, at all. I know everyone gets off here, the schadenfreude and all that, but the interiors do not require hundreds of millions in upgrades, and the views, while not the traditional unimpeded sweeping vistas that everyone seems to mistakenly think are available at every other skyscraper, are really interesting here because you get both buildings in the foreground and openings to the distance.

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The interior finishes are quite nice and very suited for its intended demographic. It's actually better than at the Ritz-Carlton which comes off as a bit tacky, dated and too traditional, and the Shangri-La which comes off as a bit too stark and cold. The exterior of Trump, that's a whole other story.
Unless another established and well-known hotel operator takes over, changing the name would be difficult and would not make business sense despite Donald Trump's reputation.
 
interchange42 said:
It's not the level of disaster here that you're claiming, at all. I know everyone gets off here, the schadenfreude and all that, but the interiors do not require hundreds of millions in upgrades, and the views, while not the traditional unimpeded sweeping vistas that everyone seems to mistakenly think are available at every other skyscraper, are really interesting here because you get both buildings in the foreground and openings to the distance.

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I don't know how you would describe the current situation but, I will stand by disaster. This is two registered stratas!

As for getting out of this mess, it will take many, many millions to convert or redesign if it can't be sold or leased as is it currently stands. The views and its location are not playing in this tower's favour and has attributed more to the poor sales than Trump's campaign over the last couple of years. I've been in this tower many times. I know the finishes. They are very nice but, they are no longer trendy either. It definitely needs a refresher to reach the target client and I know them very well. That won't be cheap either.

Probably can pick up the tower for about half the value of the real estate value of all the units once sold. There is money to be made. I wouldn't necessarily take the gamble.
 
interchange42 said:
It's not the level of disaster here that you're claiming, at all.
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Four years after the hotel opened, less than 40% of the condos and only 20% of the hotel units have sold. I make no judgement on the building's aesthetic merits, but in purely financial terms, it's hard to see how this is anything less than a disaster.
 
My comment re: disaster is being willfully mis-interpreted: I carefully wrote "level of" disaster.

First, @maestro was referring to the quality of the interiors and the views, so that's what I am reacting to, not the sales status of the suites and hotel homes.

Second, I'm saying that the interiors and views are not the level of disaster that's being portrayed. @maestro first cited "hundreds of millions" to fix the interiors, and is now at "many, many millions". That more vague claim is easier to agree with.

I don't agree with @maestro that it's the views that have prevented the sales more than anything that Trump has done recently. I believe that it is the exact opposite that has stopped recent sales cold: no-one sane wants to be associated with Trump now, and the lack of recent sales here is mirrored in his dropping business fortunes in the States generally. The brand is toast, the views here are not.

Purely in financial terms though @Bruno Republic, I am in complete agreement with you: clearly this is a catastrophe for Talon.

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PS: The hotel remains at #3 out of all Toronto properties on tripadvisor.com. Despite everything else, people really enjoy staying here.
 
maestro said:
I don't know how you would describe the current situation but, I will stand by disaster. This is two registered stratas!

As for getting out of this mess, it will take many, many millions to convert or redesign if it can't be sold or leased as is it currently stands. The views and its location are not playing in this tower's favour and has attributed more to the poor sales than Trump's campaign over the last couple of years. I've been in this tower many times. I know the finishes. They are very nice but, they are no longer trendy either. It definitely needs a refresher to reach the target client and I know them very well. That won't be cheap either.

Probably can pick up the tower for about half the value of the real estate value of all the units once sold. There is money to be made. I wouldn't necessarily take the gamble.
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Simple math says the funds that bought the $301 Million Swiss debt earlier this month would have on average paid $1 million per unsold hotel or residental unit. However, that's not how they do business. I expect they bought the paper at greatly distressed levels. Their per unit cost is nowhere near this amount. Furthermore, I'd postulate that if all unsold units have not already changed hands as a result of court proceedings the fund immediately initiated, they soon will be, and in bulk. Forget Talon, forget Trump, the end game includes a higher end, mixed use tower located in the heart of the largest, fastest growing city in Canada and certainly one of the same in North America. If it didn't make financial sense at the prices the developer was asking it will, for absolute sure, be a homerun for the right hotel operator. The 74 'unsold' condo units are in themselves insignificant to the downtown market. The only question now is price and timing of the subsequent sales, not will they sell. The fund has made their money. All they have to do is cash the cheque.
 
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