Toronto St Lawrence Market North | 25.3m | 5s | City of Toronto | Rogers Stirk Harbour

[condovo]

Walking through this area daily, I'm not sure I can fully share a maximally optimistic take on the relationship that people experiencing homelessness will have irrespective of the nature/content of the remodel. Specifically, I think you are correct that the objective should be successful execution, which will drive normal usage, however provided that a lot of congregating and sometimes damage from the unhoused takes place at night, I'm not sure successful execution will have much bearing on ensuring the space does not end up being damaged. Specifically, I can seek things like outdoor sinks or hand-washing stations being unusable very quickly.

None of that is to say, one way or another, not to attempt the most exciting/useful park you can, or neglect all of the likely visitors to the park.

The homeless / street-involved issues are also related the lane's lack of sunlight. It makes the whole place somewhat "hidden," forlorn and, dare I say, intimidating. I was with an elderly, out-of-town visitor a few years back who flat out refused to walk through because of the "menacing" darkness in the middle of an otherwise sunny afternoon. I truly hope the new scheme addresses this but, as I posted earlier, I'm not confident it will.

 

[ML555]

The homeless / street-involved issues are also related the lane's lack of sunlight. It makes the whole place somewhat "hidden" and, dare I say, intimidating. I was with an elderly, out-of-town visitor a few years back who flat out refused to walk through because of the "menacing" darkness in the middle of an otherwise sunny afternoon. I truly hope the new scheme addresses this but, as I posted earlier, I'm not confident it will.

Because of the lower-level, market aspect of the market building it should make market lane look more commercial and more welcoming. I expect that this might even be magnified at night when there will be light from both sides of the lane and not just one. Hard to say.

Also, from the image, are they getting rid of Biagio's patio???

 

[toast_and_tea]

Also, from the image, are they getting rid of Biagio's patio???

No, as per one of the city reps who spoke at the most recent community workshop, the tables shown behind Biagio in the plan reflect the restaurant's private patio and are not part of the park redesign - the image is misleading.

They were also very clear that the decision not to include Victorian-style lighting was to respect the Indigenous focus of the park.

 

[DSC]

The homeless / street-involved issues are also related the lane's lack of sunlight. It makes the whole place somewhat "hidden," forlorn and, dare I say, intimidating. I was with an elderly, out-of-town visitor a few years back who flat out refused to walk through because of the "menacing" darkness in the middle of an otherwise sunny afternoon. I truly hope the new scheme addresses this but, as I posted earlier, I'm not confident it will.

I think you, or your elderly visitor, exaggerate 'somewhat'. While I MIGHT be wary of walking there at 4am I really cannot imagine being anxious at 4pm. Most homeless folk are NOT (physically) threatening - though their (increasing) presence does threaten our sense that we live in a fair world where there are safety nets for those who fall through the cracks.

 

[Northern Light]

They were also very clear that the decision not to include Victorian-style lighting was to respect the Indigenous focus of the park.

But the strings of hanging light bulbs radiate indigenous-ness?

It's not the end of the world that they didn't go the Victorian route.......

But I find that 'logic' somewhat.....lacking.

 

[evandyk]

I think you, or your elderly visitor, exaggerate 'somewhat'. While I MIGHT be wary of walking there at 4am I really cannot imagine being anxious at 4pm. Most homeless folk are NOT (physically) threatening - though their (increasing) presence does threaten our sense that we live in a fair world where there are safety nets for those who fall through the cracks.

I think we've had this discussion above, but while I as a middle aged guy feel totally comfortable walking through there, my wife would never walk through there on her own or with the toddler. There's something about the dark colonnade on the west side, then there are often groups of men drinking, who I'm told have catcalled and harassed her on occasion (never happens when I'm with her obviously).

Hopefully just introducing a lot more people will fix things on its own. But the lighting and cleanliness of that colonnade could be a lot better.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

But the strings of hanging light bulbs radiate indigenous-ness?

It's not the end of the world that they didn't go the Victorian route.......

But I find that 'logic' somewhat.....lacking.

...seems more like mockery to me. And a trend that's seems inspired by American patio food establishments...hardly indigenous, lol.

 

[DSC]

They put up the last 3 'arches' on north east corner today. They still have some more structural steel to erect and then can finish off the floors and start doing more 'covering'!

 

[toast_and_tea]

But the strings of hanging light bulbs radiate indigenous-ness?

Its not the end of the world that they didn't go the Victorian route.......

But I find that 'logic' somewhat.....lacking.

The city reps described the catenary lighting as being thin, unobtrusive and 'star-like', but there was some hesitancy from at least one of the workshop participants, especially about what they'd look like during the daylight hours. I believe someone may have compared them to a tangle of overhead streetcar wires. Personally I like the use of natural wooden poles for lighting and think it will compliment the look and feel of the proposed park design.

 

[condovo]

I think we've had this discussion above, but while I as a middle aged guy feel totally comfortable walking through there, my wife would never walk through there on her own or with the toddler. There's something about the dark colonnade on the west side, then there are often groups of men drinking, who I'm told have catcalled and harassed her on occasion (never happens when I'm with her obviously).

Hopefully just introducing a lot more people will fix things on its own. But the lighting and cleanliness of that colonnade could be a lot better.

Oh, your wife's exaggerating. Don't believe her.

 

[condovo]

I think you, or your elderly visitor, exaggerate 'somewhat'. While I MIGHT be wary of walking there at 4am I really cannot imagine being anxious at 4pm. Most homeless folk are NOT (physically) threatening - though their (increasing) presence does threaten our sense that we live in a fair world where there are safety nets for those who fall through the cracks.

Yes, my 90-something visitor and I were exaggerating. It was all in our heads. That explains the dissonance with your social-justice narrative. How could I and my frail companion on my arm have been anxious walking through the dark at 4pm with street people acting out? I mean, what's right for you gotta be right for us.

 

[ML555]

Concrete work today; floors still do not extend the full length of the buildings, and structural steel still incomplete.

 

[condovo]

April 7, 2022, 3:30 PM

My iPhone 12 camera actually corrected the darkness in these pix to an extent. It’s darker in real life. When there are leaves on the trees it’s even darker. The renderings showing the lane flooded with sunlight are dishonest.

Any reno that doesn’t account for the lack of sun here - with appropriate plantings and artificial lighting, day and night - is doomed to fail, especially after the patina of newness is gone.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

...those are not dog "loafs" on the bottom right hand corner of the last pic? >.<

 

[condovo]

^^^ I think they're chunks of asphalt.