Toronto St Lawrence Centre Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | CreateTO | Hariri Pontarini

[condovo]

For me it's definitely RDHA, Mecanoo, Two Row Architect, and NAK Design Strategie. Their addition seems most organically connected to the original building. It's a logical outgrowth. The other proposals look like tacked-on, overwrought, ego-driven carbuncles.

 

[Northern Light]

For me it's definitely RDHA, Mecanoo, Two Row Architect, and NAK Design Strategie. Their addition seems most organically connected to the original building. It's a logical outgrowth. The other proposals look like tacked-on, overwrought, ego-driven carbuncles.

I'm totally intrigued by your interest in the original building here. I mean Albert C is a great guy, but a bit weird.....and we all know it, LOL (ducks)

But I don't recall any deference to Brutalism from you; which to me that reads as...........

Put simply, I'd rather hide or alter the original in which I find no redeeming value than preserve its miserable aesthetic which I consider a carbuncle on the entire area.

 

[FormerTorontonianBackInTO]

For me it's definitely RDHA, Mecanoo, Two Row Architect, and NAK Design Strategie. Their addition seems most organically connected to the original building. It's a logical outgrowth. The other proposals look like tacked-on, overwrought, ego-driven carbuncles.

To my amateur eyes the Brook McIlroy proposal actually does the best job of complementing yet softening the existing brutalist structure. The solid and clean lines are generally consistent with what is already there (I may be in the minority as someone that happens to appreciate the current building, as I developed a sentimental soft spot for brutalism while spending all of those formative years at York University) while the wood adds some warmth to it - I generally really like the contrast of grey concrete with warm wood tones

 

[condovo]

I'm totally intrigued by your interest in the original building here. I mean Albert C is a great guy, but a bit weird.....and we all know it, LOL (ducks)

But I don't recall any deference to Brutalism from you; which to me that reads as...........

Put simply, I'd rather hide or alter the original in which I find no redeeming value than preserve its miserable aesthetic which I consider a carbuncle on the entire area.

I'm interested in coherence. If the original building has to stay, let the addition be in some kind of continuity with it. The design language of this proposal makes the most sense to me.

As for the deference to Brutalism, I'm all for it where it's warranted. There's fantastic Brutalism around the world, in London, Belgrade, Bratislava, Italy, etc. This example of Brutalism is garbage but the chattering gatekeepers have decided it's got to stay.

 

[condovo]

To my amateur eyes the Brook McIlroy proposal actually does the best job of complementing yet softening the existing brutalist structure. The solid and clean lines are generally consistent with what is already there (I may be in the minority as someone that happens to appreciate the current building, as I developed a sentimental soft spot for brutalism while spending all of those formative years at York University) while the wood adds some warmth to it - I generally really like the contrast of grey concrete with warm wood tones

To me, Brooke McIlroy's proposal is too timid. RDHA, Mecanoo, et al's proposal is more challenging, more exciting.
But the Brooke McIlroy rendering we've been given doesn't really let me see what's going on. I need more views.

 

[alklay]

First, I wish I could better understand good theatre design and the needs/wishes of the arts community. I think this is almost paramount and as a casual observer looking at PDF's, I am wholly unqualified to judge on the functionality of the theatre and art spaces. I am interested in hearing the presentations to learn a little more.

But is that going to stop me in making some judgments based on pretty pictures? Heck no. So let's go:

Brook:
I really like the adaptable theatre and art spaces and think it is the most creative submission in that regard (but I defer to the arts community for final approval). And while the exterior is certainly respectful and plays nicely with the original design, it is bit bland and yes, looks like a terraced condo on top.

Diamond:
This doesn't exactly shine like a diamond (sorry). I am not loving the Gehry-like mess on the roof (let Gehry do Gehry) but the street level is decent. The "flair" on top just looks tacked on and has no relation to the base. As for the communal/grande space inside, sorry, it reminds me of a shopping mall (I am sure it will look decent enough in real life). As for theatre spaces, the firm has a very decent record, so points given.

Hariri:
Look, we know their stuff looks great in real life. We know that they can execute. We know they can design good theatre spaces. The project looks cohesive (are you paying attention Diamond?) and still pays respect to the original building. And they get bonus points for a theatre space with a view of the skyline. Bring it on.

RDHA:
Respectful and quiet. The rooftop additions work, as do the rest of the additions to the exterior. And nice use of materials. If anything, it is a bit boring and bland (but probably safe and cheap). Perfectly Toronto? Unfair?

Zeidler:
They lost me with the giant overhanging blank box that looms large over the corner entrance. When compared to the transparency of the Hariri design, this exterior comes across as the worse of the submissions. They were almost too respectful of the original design, with additions that highlight everything wrong with the present design. I am sure they are capable of decent interior theatre design and art space, and the interior has some nice use of space and volumes...but the exterior kills it for me. And that outdoor "theatre" space will hardly be used.

Don't forget to like and subscribe.

 

[Lenser]

Man, I dunno. Gotta take some time to evaluate all the proposals, there's some striking differences involved and I need to get my head around what each one offers. I am not a huge fan of the original building's hulking presence, so I am tempted to go with whatever entry feels like the greatest positive departure from that less than stellar original character. Still, it's an exciting array of prospects. I look forward to seeing which team wins the gig.

 

[condovo]

RDHA, Mecanoo, Two Row Architect, and NAK Design Strategie's proposal gives me vibes of the National Theatre, London, UK. Their proposal is nodding strongly toward iconic Brutalism, thereby elevating St. Lawrence Centre's mediocre Brutalism. Just my opinion. I respect other's opinions.

Source

Source

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Link to competition site with additional renderings of each proposal:

Design Concepts - STLC NEXT

stlcnext.org

Presentation panels

Brook McIlroy
DSAI
HPA
RDHA
Zeidler

AoD

 

[Towered]

HP for me. Not interested in preserving anything of the current building. Also, wasn't there supposed to be a condo tower included?

 

[AlexBozikovic]

The “Zeidler” design is led by Diller Scofidio + Renfro. It is characteristic of their work in a few ways: the use of screens, the twisting vertical circulation, the stacked-boxes formal strategy.

 

[Volchenkov]

The Zeidler/DSR scheme rests on idea of a green roof area that will be in shade most of the day, and only green for 3-4 months a year. Then they added trees to the upper roof that will block the sun even more. What will it look like with the green removed? The silver aluminum box is very uninviting and aluminum is very unsustainable to produce. There is no reference to indigenous design - since the project site notes each team had an indigenous designer it's hard to find here.

The HPA scheme is a mess for me - and so are their boards - too busy and every trick HPA keeps using over and over. Rotating the stage tower to be aligned to Front Street is a strange move as it bocks the street experience. It also looks like the stage tower location doesn't match the fold in the elevation - the render mass doesn't match the plan....Their theatre design is the least successful out of the group and no amount of splashing water can help hide it.

The Mecanoo scheme is interesting for the materials used, and the stepping back. The images look cold though - and the scheme is closed off just as much as Zeidlers/DSR. The interior is like an office building/mall esp. with the planters

The Brook scheme is my favorite - the sections are beautiful and show connections and flexibility in the spaces - it looks like the theatre can open to the lobby and transforms the entire ground floor space. The variety of outdoor spaces is interesting, better than one large space IMO. The cantilever is powerful and provides protection....and is probably the strongest landscape design with the gathering space and abundance of trees. Very simple and clean plans.

The metal wrapper on the DS scheme is confusing - why is it there? The interiors speak of a food court - although do give them credit for incorporating the most indigenous design elements. As someone said DS should be kept away from anymore brutalist projects.

 

[longfortheoldview]

Who's making the decisions to fund this? TO Live's stages are notoriously under-utilized, and dark most nights. Sure the SLC could use a facelift, but for who? Who is using the facility when this is complete?
If there was any sense to this, you need 2 or 3 theatre companies to sign on as long term partners/tenants, and build the facilities that these theatre companies actually need (rehearsal halls, scene & wardrobe shops, prop & set storage, etc.).
These proposals (that include ridiculous things like theatres open through glass to the streets, or performance spaces on bridges over Scott Street!?) are completely useless to the reality of the theatre scene in this city.

 

[DSC]

Who's making the decisions to fund this? TO Live's stages are notoriously under-utilized, and dark most nights. Sure the SLC could use a facelift, but for who? Who is using the facility when this is complete?
If there was any sense to this, you need 2 or 3 theatre companies to sign on as long term partners/tenants, and build the facilities that these theatre companies actually need (rehearsal halls, scene & wardrobe shops, prop & set storage, etc.).
These proposals (that include ridiculous things like theatres open through glass to the streets, or performance spaces on bridges over Scott Street!?) are completely useless to the reality of the theatre scene in this city.

Most funding will be private. Yes, SLC is underutilized but that is primarily because it needs to be redesigned.

 

[T3G]

There's fantastic Brutalism around the world, in London, Belgrade, Bratislava, Italy, etc. This example of Brutalism is garbage but the chattering gatekeepers have decided it's got to stay.

Well, now you've got me curious. Bratislava is my hometown. Which building there in particular do you think is an example of fantastic brutalism?

There are many, many gorgeous buildings in that city, but nothing comes to mind under the Brutalist label!