Toronto St. Clair West Transit Improvements | ?m | ?s | TTC

[jwill]

Unfortunately not every street has room for 3 separate modes of travel. There are real bike lanes on Davenport (Yonge-Weston) to the south and Rogers Rd. (Oakwood-Weston) to the north, if you're commuting by bike.

 

[nfitz]

When they block the only lane of traffic between Old Weston Road and Keele, it's going to get ugly.

When I used to bicycle (and it's been a few years now), I never thought twice about blocking a lane of traffic. I don't recall ever things getting ugly ... cars always seemed pretty respectful to me ...

Even these days as a pedestrian and car driver, I don't see either getting ugly with cyclists ... cyclists however are another matter ... many seem very rude.

Personally, as a driver, I'd prefer the bicycle stay right behind me, or right in front of me, rather than trying to cut up the side where a lane doesn't exist.

This attitude among bikes that they have to stay right by the curb, seems more driven by not wanting to lose the ability to undertake cars where they really shouldn't be cycling in the first place.

 

[junctionist]

No, I meant that the traffic will be ugly.

 

[nfitz]

No, I meant that the traffic will be ugly.

Considering that most cyclists don't seem to have any problem breaking the law, and cycling down besides cars where there is no lane ... then in that case, I doubt they will be too troubled by breaking the law and cycling down the sidewalk.

 

[junctionist]

Considering that most cyclists don't seem to have any problem breaking the law, and cycling down besides cars where there is no lane ... then in that case, I doubt they will be too troubled by breaking the law and cycling down the sidewalk.

Maybe they'll use the ROW, who knows. Drivers don't seem to care much about the law either unless there's a cruiser in sight, so there's a convenient opening in the curb at the bottom of the grade onto the ROW. Of course, this underpass has to go.

 

[CDL.TO]

Considering that most cyclists don't seem to have any problem breaking the law, and cycling down besides cars where there is no lane

Could you cite the law which states that this is illegal?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Considering that most cyclists don't seem to have any problem breaking the law, and cycling down besides cars where there is no lane ... then in that case, I doubt they will be too troubled by breaking the law and cycling down the sidewalk.

I always see motorists not stopping at stop signs, rolling through traffic signals as they make a right turn, taking two lanes of traffic making left or right turns, speeding over the posted speed limit, parking in NO STOPPING zones, stopping at red lights past the thick stop line and over the crosswalk (blocking pedestrians), etc.. Seems like habits practiced while driving their automobiles are just being carried over to their bicycles.

 

[nfitz]

I always see motorists not stopping at stop signs, rolling through traffic signals as they make a right turn, taking two lanes of traffic making left or right turns, speeding over the posted speed limit, parking in NO STOPPING zones, stopping at red lights past the thick stop line and over the crosswalk (blocking pedestrians), etc.. Seems like habits practiced while driving their automobiles are just being carried over to their bicycles.

Perhaps ... but not once in my life have I been walking down the sidewalk when a car driver brushes past me, swearing at me for being in his way!

 

[nfitz]

Could you cite the law which states that this is illegal?

Ontario Highway Traffic Act

“vehicle” includes a motor vehicle, trailer, traction engine, farm tractor, road-building machine, bicycle and any vehicle drawn, propelled or driven by any kind of power, including muscular power, but does not include a motorized snow vehicle or a street car

So any regulation that applies to a car, applies to a bicycle (but not a streetcar) - notwithstanding any notwithstandings ... .

If you read the law, Section 148 defines that one must pass on the left. Section 150 allows motor vehicles to pass on the right, if there is space, but is explicitly written not to include non-motorized vehicles. It is not legal for bicycles to pass on the right ... presumably for safety reasons, as they motor vehicle may not see them.

 

[dob467]

Simply not true nfitz. Bikes may be considered vehicles, but there's much more in the Act. See this posting on Biking Toronto and pay particular attention to Sgt Tim Burrow's posts in the comments section - http://bikingtoronto.com/10-secrets-to-cycling-with-traffic-part-9-of-10/

 

[nfitz]

Simply not true nfitz. Bikes may be considered vehicles, but there's much more in the Act. See this posting on Biking Toronto and pay particular attention to Sgt Tim Burrow's posts in the comments section - http://bikingtoronto.com/10-secrets-to-cycling-with-traffic-part-9-of-10/

Is that the same liar who has posted that the police didn't arrest anyone during the G20 who wasn't protesting, that they didn't abuse anyone, didn't remove their IDs, and that they didn't use rubber bullets?

Whether what he has written here is true or not, Tim Burrows is a pathological liar, and what he says means little.

And of course, there's a world of difference between what the law says one should do ... and what one should do.

 

[maudlin]

Biking on St. Clair is awful. During rush hours, you can take an appropriate spot in the curb lane (anywhere from the right tire track, or a meter from the curb, or the middle of the lane are all legal, safe and valid choices), but riding during non-peak hours means that you either ride on the line between the two lanes (just barely out of the door zone, but in a spot that justifiably makes drivers behind you nervous) or you take the lane. If traffic is slow, taking a safe position in the center lane doesn't slow drivers down, but most of us don't ride quickly enough to justify using that lane when things are moving more briskly.

However, whether I'm going east or west between Old Weston and Keele, I ALWAYS take the single lane when going through the underpass, moving closer to the curb and allowing cars to pass me only after I'm out in the open again. Not only is this legal and safe, there should be little or no inconvenience for drivers because traffic is either jammed solid (which actually makes it more of a pain for cyclists than drivers) or you can easily accelerate to 40 km or more when you have more space. I just cringe whenever I see a cyclist creeping through this or any underpass just a foot from the wall, which keeps you in the worst part of the road and gives you absolutely no escape route.

 

[M II A II R II K]

One good thing about the ROW I've noticed is that it sure makes jaywalking a lot easier.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I was looking at this old TTC map and noticed that the Jane bus used to connect directly with the St. Clair streetcar.

Okay, the names and routes have changed since then, but an extension of the St. Clair streetcar to Jane Street or Scarlett Road should be the next change to come to the St. Clair streetcar.

There have been other changes to the St. Clair streetcar over the years. Here's my timeline of some of the changes:

St. Clair streetcar timeline

1891 Toronto Railway Company gets 30-year licence to operate public transit. Will only provide service to city limits of 1891.
1911 Toronto Civic Railway formed to provide service to annexed areas. Construction starts on St. Clair.
1913 Double-ended St. Clair streetcar service starts, with right-of-way between Yonge Street and Caledonia Road and a temporary bridge over Nordheimer Ravine.
1914 Permanent bridge over Nordheimer Ravine.
1921 Toronto Transportation Commission takes over. New Caledonia loop opens as western terminal for single-ended Avenue Road streetcars, while double-ended St. Clair streetcars operated between Yonge and Avenue Road.
1923 Lawton Loop opens at Yonge Street and Lawton Avenue as eastern terminal, allowing for full single-ended St. Clair streetcar service. Bay streetcars operated continuing from Avenue Road to Lansdowne.
1924 Eastern terminal extended to Mount Pleasant Road at Moore Park Loop.
1925 Eastern terminal extended north to Eglinton Avenue East and Mount Pleasant Road.
1928 Right-of-way begins to be abandoned between Bathurst and Dufferin.
1929 Right-of-way between Dufferin and Lansdowne is abandoned.
1931 Western terminal extended west to Townsley Loop (Old Weston Road) after CN bridge built.
1931 Right-of-way between Lansdowne and Caledonia is abandoned.
1932 Western terminal extended west and north to Keele Loop at Weston Road after railway bridge built. Northlands Loop at Weston Road and city limits used on occasion. Bathurst tripper service operated to Keele and St. Clair during rush hours.
1935 Right-of-way between Bathurst and Yonge is abandoned.
1943 Rush hour service to Avon Loop (Rogers Road).
1954 Yonge Subway opens. St. Clair station opens. Bathurst tripper and Bay streetcars cut back. Oakwood and Rogers Road streetcar terminate at St. Clair station during rush hours. New name: Toronto Transit Commission.
1961 Oakwood streetcar replaced by Ossington trolley bus, but up to Oakwood and Eglinton only.
1966 Avon loop abandoned, only Keele loop to be used.
1974 Yellow painted strips tried out to keep automobiles off tracks. Ignored.
1974 Rogers Road streetcar disappears, replaced by trolley bus.
1975 Eastern leg replaced by Mt. Pleasant streetcar between St. Clair subway station and Eglinton and Mt. Pleasant. St. Clair station eastern terminal for St. Clair streetcars.
1976 Mt. Pleasant streetcar replaced by trolley bus.
1978 St. Clair West Subway station opens where Nordheimer Ravine is.
1981 Keele Loop replaced by Gunns Loop (formerly Maybank Avenue) further west on St. Clair.
2000 Blue Night service on St. Clair replaced by bus to Jane Station.
2005 Right-of-way approved by city council. NIMBY's delay construction.
2006 Construction of new right-of-way begins after delays.
2007 Right-of-way completed between St. Clair and St. Clair West subway stations.
2008 Original project completion date.
2009 Right-of-way completed between St. Clair station and Lansdowne.
2010 Right-of-way fully opened St. Clair subway station to Gunns Loop.​

 

[EnviroTO]

Interesting from that map is that nothing ran on Dufferin.