Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group
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Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Was this a recent change? The last time I was on Viva Orange Eastbound, there was a Zum 501 bus turning right onto Jane, making my bus wait a whole green and red light phase.
johntauren
Active Member
September? I think.
I'm not sure where the bus turns around though.
They probably didn't need a duplication of service anymore - a good majority of trips along the Zum were going to York directly anyways so they kept the express service and cut back just a bit to keep service along Highway 7.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
I don't even know why the 501 and Viva Orange duplicate service through Woodbridge. The majority of commuters from Brampton seem to prefer the 501A.
smallspy
Senior Member
YRT had (and probably still has) an issue with losing their "visibility" along one of their prime corridors. They were concerned with what the public reaction would be if all of the express buses on that stretch of Highway 7 were all Brampton Transit buses. And this is despite the fact that they are also paying BT for part of the service along there as well.
Dan
johntauren
Active Member
Probably because Viva Orange has a really weird end point (Martin Grove weekdays, Pine Valley weekends) and BT wanted a logical end point for their own route (York formerly - now VMC) which resulted in some duplication, but not too much.
ShonTron
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That's classic YRT penny pinching. Martin Grove isn't a terrible terminal point (it's the end of residential development in Woodbridge) but Pine Valley is ridiculous. Really, the terminal should be at Highway 50 or The Gore Road, to meet Brampton Transit and provide full coverage as far as where the 501A/C make their last stop on the corridor.
Sandpit
Active Member
Historically YRT Route 77 went from Finch to Bramalea City Centre and was jointly operated by Vaughan Transit and Brampton Transit. The current arrangement on Highway 7 west is a continuation of that. But there are plans to extend Viva Orange to Highway 50, and when that happens, I predict Zum will no longer operate between Highway 50 and VMC because there will be too much duplication of service (in fact, there already is, which is why Viva Orange only goes to Pine Valley on weekends). People going between Vaughan and Brampton will have to transfer at Highway 50, but this will allow both Viva Orange and Zum Queen to operate with higher frequencies.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
especially now with the rapid employment growth that is happening out near the 427, and the residential intensification going on in Woodbridge and at Kipling..
thettctransitfanatic
Senior Member
Yes, with all the devlopment and more planned for 427 and 7 area ( there is a Costco there now ! ).
It is duplication. Zum, should find an alternate eastern terminus. But, then again, the York U students from Brampton need to have a direct link, and Zum maybe could go down 427 to 407, 407 over to 407 station, then go down to Unveristy. We are getting off-topic...
Sandpit
Active Member
That already exists: the 501A
http://www.brampton.ca/EN/residents...ip/Documents/Route_Cards_Main/501_print_4.pdf
It's possible that that could become the only Zum Queen route after Viva is extended to Highway 50. Or they could run the current branches and simply cut the 501 back to Highway 50. Either way, they could increase frequencies with the same number of buses because there will be less route to cover.
This also means that York U (or Pioneer Village if BT is kicked off York campus) will replace VMC as the main subway access point for Branpton commuters (see, we're still on topic!)
robmausser
Senior Member
Btw whats the status of York GO station? Is it dead?
I still think they should move it north to steeles with a bus stop.
raptor
Senior Member
Move it? They should close it, and let students transfer at Downsview Park. Whatever happened to the "connectivity" and "transit hubs" mantra?!
Fritter
Active Member
The original plan was to close it with the opening of the TYSSE, but some loud and influential voices kept it open for now. Currently only rush hour trains stop there, off peak trains by-pass the station.
rbt
Senior Member
Yes, bus is very important in all locations BUT very few purposefully design their rail network (or neighbourhoods) to require 90% of passengers to be bused into the station. SSE design is a great example; is $4B to a 20+bay bus terminal the best use of funds. Is that really how we think planners in Paris/London/Madrid/Moscow/etc. would build a transit network in that location? They've all built mid-capacity lines or corridors to replace bus in mixed-traffic heavy regions of their cities.
Finch, before the Spadina extension, had a catchment of nearly 100km^2 to gather (via highly congested mixed traffic) 100,000 riders per day to a single location. That's a pretty rare combination of area coverage + passenger load to bring to a single point.
They all support the bus. Very few require the same duration of bus trip as we do to get to a very small number of oversized railway lines. Most will scale the trunk line to ridership and attempt to build more of them rather than getting stuck on a "1 size fits all" type model that Toronto has embraced.
Or they make the bus itself the trunk of the network (as Ottawa did) and give it both appropriate infrastructure and service levels. The Mississauga transitway is leaning toward that model in a way we don't see with York Regions BRT.
Anyway, happy to be wrong. I'd love examples of numerous high frequency 20km long bus routes in mixed traffic feeding a single station that I can visit those locations. I've not stumbled across any in quite that situation. Stations in Jackson Heights (Queens) probably get the closest but NY is also unique in the world for having an almost completely stalled expansion for 80 years.
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