Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

WRT park & ride lots - casinos and park and ride lots seem to work well together - at least that's what's done at Bridgeport Station on Vancouver's Canada Line.

http://www.riverrock.com/directions/parking.aspx

Makes sense. Casinos do a lot of their business on evenings and weekends, exactly when demand for Park N Ride spaces are lowest. It's a pretty good symbiotic relationship.
 
Being serious for a moment, why would Wonderland even agree to have a subway station, not to mention pay for it?
They are making a fortune from their parking lot (is it still $8 per vehicle?). Those who want to Wonderland, drive there today. A subway station would not increase their attendance.

Perhaps it isn't so much so for the convenience of visitors but what it will do to property value?

AoD
 
Perhaps it isn't so much so for the convenience of visitors but what it will do to property value?

AoD

But realistically, property value is pretty much irrelevant unless you're planning on selling. All that it means between now and when they plan on selling is a higher property tax rate.
 
gweed:

But realistically, property value is pretty much irrelevant unless you're planning on selling. All that it means between now and when they plan on selling is a higher property tax rate.

Considering from consideration to completion takes a decade plus, the timeline would seem pretty appropriate to be supportive of the scheme. Besides, it isn't like they can't sever the lot and sell it off piecemeal.

AoD
 
gweed:



Considering from consideration to completion takes a decade plus, the timeline would seem pretty appropriate to be supportive of the scheme. Besides, it isn't like they can't sever the lot and sell it off piecemeal.

AoD

That's true. Who knows how long it'll be before the Wonderland owners see the value of their property rise to the point where they can sell it for a substantial profit.

And yes, I suppose they could sever off portions of the parking lots (and build parking garages perhaps instead), to build condos or office buildings.
 
That's true. Who knows how long it'll be before the Wonderland owners see the value of their property rise to the point where they can sell it for a substantial profit.

And yes, I suppose they could sever off portions of the parking lots (and build parking garages perhaps instead), to build condos or office buildings.

I think Cedar Fair sold some land to the City of Vaughn for a hospital some years ago. I honestly doubt Wonderland is going anywhere soon. I am a casual coaster fan, and I remember Former Cedar Fair CEO Dick Kinzel remarking what a "gem Wonderland is" when Cedar Fair bought the park from Paramount. Wonderland makes a LOT of money yearly, anyone who visits in the summer can attest to that. It's rare to have a amusement park smack dab in the middle of a major metropolitan area, surrounded by single family homes. The long term profitability of the park is probably more important than a one time gain from selling the park land to a developer.
 
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I think Cedar Fair sold some land to the City of Vaughn for a hospital some years ago. I honestly doubt Wonderland is going anywhere soon. I am a casual coaster fan, and I remember Former Cedar Fair CEO Dick Kinzel remarking what a "gem Wonderland is" when Cedar Fair bought the park from Paramount. Wonderland makes a LOT of money yearly, anyone who visits in the summer can attest to that. It's rare to have a amusement park smack dab in the middle of a major metropolitan area, surrounded by single family homes. The long term profitability of the park is probably more important than a one time gain from selling the park land to a developer.

There's other parks surrounded by suburban development that aren't going anywhere, two of which are owned by Cedar Fair: Great America near San Jose and Knott's Berry Farm in Orange County, CA.

Wonderland has lots of room compared to its California equivalents.
 
There's other parks surrounded by suburban development that aren't going anywhere, two of which are owned by Cedar Fair: Great America near San Jose and Knott's Berry Farm in Orange County, CA.

Wonderland has lots of room compared to its California equivalents.
And it's been many decades since Disneyland has been within eyesight of orange groves.

Were Cedar Fair feeling ambitious, they could start to build a conference centre/hotel on top of their parking lot, in which case a hard transit link to downtown would be very useful. However, I don't see a private business that is currently in the business of selling parking spaces wanting to put down money to improve transit. Status Quo is the easiest business case.
 
Canada's Wonderland (the only Cedar Fair property in Canada) is the most attended seasonal theme park in North America (and one of the most profitable as well). It will not disappear for a very long time, given that fact.

La Ronde (the only Six Flags property in Canada) in Montreal is a very short free shuttle bus ride from Jean-Drapeau Metro station (and a substantial number of visitors to La Ronde arrive by public transit).

If the Spadina line were to be extended, then it would bring many visitors from Toronto to Wonderland (given that it currently costs extra to go to Wonderland from the TTC, as the 165 Weston Rd. North bus crosses Steeles Avenue (and the 60 Wonderland Express Bus operated by GO Transit is much faster, but slightly more expensive)). However, this extension will require much more funds (and political will) to do so.
 
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Canada's Wonderland (the only Cedar Fair property in Canada) is the most attended seasonal theme park in North America (and one of the most profitable as well). It will not disappear for a very long time, given that fact.

La Ronde (the only Six Flags property in Canada) in Montreal is a very short free shuttle bus ride from Jean-Drapeau Metro station (and a substantial number of visitors to La Ronde arrive by public transit).

If the Spadina line were to be extended, then it would bring many visitors from Toronto to Wonderland (given that it currently costs extra to go to Wonderland from the TTC, as the 165 Weston Rd. North bus crosses Steeles Avenue (and the 60 Wonderland Express Bus operated by GO Transit is much faster, but slightly more expensive)). However, this extension will require much more funds (and political will) to do so.

But LaRonde is a bit different though. Because it's on an island, there's limited parking spaces, so they need those shuttle buses in order to ensure viability. Wonderland has the 400 and a sea of parking, so it doesn't need rapid transit (or even transit in general).

From my perspective, there are 3 ways Wonderland can financially benefit from an RT extension into the area:

1) The number of new visitors offsets or more than offsets the lost revenue from parking. Parking is currently $15, with a single-time park admission fee of $40. So if 8 people who normally drive (ignore multiple people in the same vehicle, just for the simplicity of the math) choose to take transit instead, you'd need 3 new people who wouldn't have gone to Wonderland otherwise in order for them to make the same amount of money. Given that a lot of trips to Wonderland are families who take 1 car, it should be easy for them to break even or even turn a profit when it comes to attracting new visitors compared to the status quo. I can see a lot of Toronto families taking advantage of that, especially with a TTC Day Pass that can take basically the entire family for $10 (I think it's still $10, may be a bit more than that now, but still, cheaper than parking).

2) Renting out parts of their parking lot to the TTC/Metrolinx (or charging on their own independent of the TTC/Metrolinx) as a Park N Ride lot. Most of the Park N Ride usage is weekdays, and Wonderland does their highest business on weekends during the summer, when demand for Park N Ride will be near zero.

3) Sell off or lease portions of their land to developers.

So could this be financially viable for them? Sure. Would it be a wise investment for Metrolinx? Hell no, at least not right now.
 
Vaughan and York Region should start simply by having a new Viva route up Jane Street to serve Vaughan Mills, Wonderland, and go across Major Mack to Richmond Hill. If they can't make a go of it with buses every 15 min, why bother giving them another subway extension?
 
If they can't make a go of it with buses every 15 min, why bother giving them another subway extension?
If you had buses running as infrequently as only once ever 15 minutes, even then I don't think you could justify subway.

Oh wait - VIVA Orange from Downsview to Vaughan Corporate Metro-I'mCompensatingForSomething-opolis Centre is only once every 15-minutes peak isn't it ...
 
Vaughan and York Region should start simply by having a new Viva route up Jane Street to serve Vaughan Mills, Wonderland, and go across Major Mack to Richmond Hill. If they can't make a go of it with buses every 15 min, why bother giving them another subway extension?

Ding Ding Ding!!! That's what I said a couple of days ago. Vaughan and York Region need to kick this addiction that they have to subways. A BRT route would be much more effective, efficient, and be completed quicker.
 

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