Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

Sydney's Cityrail carries 900,000 riders per day
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Oh, now it makes sense why did not have a subway... :)

Go Transit plus Subway is around what 1.1 million people???
 
MisterF said:
I wasn't proposing just GO improvements. I was proposing a complete conversion to regional rail, which can be capable of carrying loads almost as heavy as a subway line. Sydney's Cityrail carries 900,000 riders per day. In that city the idea of commuter rail and subway being separate doesn't exist.
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We can't just convert to a Sydney model because we already have subways.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
We can't just convert to a Sydney model because we already have subways.
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You're misunderstanding me - I'm not saying we should convert all our existing subways to regional rail. I was just using Sydney as an example. I meant converting GO Transit. There's no reason that high capacity regional rail lines couldn't be built to complement the existing subway network. They can be built on rail rights of way, along streets, or in tunnels, wherever they're needed. You can bet the Lakeshore line will start to resemble regional rail when it gets electrified. A lot of cities have both heavy rail and regional rail. Look at Berlin.
 
I'm not misunderstanding you...the overall Sydney model doesn't necessarily apply here because it involves no subways, but the Berlin model - any model with a combination - might.


Anyway, you seem to think I oppose regional rail beyond GO improvements - I support GO improvements, and by GO improvements I do not mean 12 cars instead of 10, I mean the whole shebang with all day both way service on different (electric?) trains (or whatever those trendy EU cities are running), etc. It's just that whatever regional/commuter/whatever rail GO morphs into, well, GO must morph into it, probably keeping the name, the colour green, most station locations, etc.

It's impossible to tell how far GO will morph because we're incapable of thinking big right now...if we limit it to existing rail corridors, then it's safe to say that GO improvements most certainly cannot solve all of our problems. When I said GO improvements can't replace the DRL, obviously a different rail system could take someone from Markham to Union station, but it won't be able to provide a local service along the way that's as useful...and I think the DRL's biggest plus is that it has so much more potential than simply shuttling suburbanites to the CBD.

Of course, if we start building new corridors for what GO morphs into, it'll open up all kinds of doors.
 
Still waiting for the Feds to cough up their share. The latest spat is that they are demanding the TTC consider P3 options more seriously. There's word that they may cough it up.. in time for an election.

Planning and design is still ongoing, though.
 
isittimetomoveyet said:
Why cant they just release the bloody money? Bureaucrats piss me off.
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In a way, I hope this extension doesnt happen. The BRT to YorkU will be more than sufficient. Sorbara pushed this plan ahead to further his own (and friends) financial position, as they own most of the land where the line runs through. I suspect Flaherty can see this and will give TTC an out and direct funds towards roadway improvements and Transit City. We can only hope, because there is only so much money to go around and this extension will suck the life out of transit expansion in Toronto for a long time. If the McGuinty government wants this, they can pay for it themselves. I highly doubt it.
 
However, it is in Harper's vested interest to delay the official announcement of funding to the project until just before the next election, to buy votes in the 905. There is no doubt that this is the real reason behind the delay in transferring the federal money. This line has been in planning for a long time, tenders are already going out for various works.. to switch it to a P3 at this point is utterly pointless.

And quite simply, IMO, if the Cities and Province have both put up their cash, that's a 67% voting share. The Feds shouldn't have a say anymore.. Harper keeps talking of taking a hands off approach to the provinces and the cities.. yet this is the most hands on approach one can take.
 
299 bloor call control. said:
However, it is in Harper's vested interest to delay the official announcement of funding to the project until just before the next election, to buy votes in the 905. There is no doubt that this is the real reason behind the delay in transferring the federal money. This line has been in planning for a long time, tenders are already going out for various works.. to switch it to a P3 at this point is utterly pointless.

And quite simply, IMO, if the Cities and Province have both put up their cash, that's a 67% voting share. The Feds shouldn't have a say anymore.. Harper keeps talking of taking a hands off approach to the provinces and the cities.. yet this is the most hands on approach one can take.
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Yup. Ditto for the Yonge extension on all counts. I don't know when Move2020 will happen but with McGuinty putting up 2/3 of the funding I don't know how long the Feds can hold out.
Approval is inevitable and Harper is just waiting for the maximum photo op. All's fair in politics, I guess.

And I'm personally tired of people going off about the "Sorbara Line." People who live in the 416 tend to have an awful short-sighted view of what goes on in the other side of Steeles. There are multiple proposals for 30-40 storey skycrapers along both proposed subway extensions and suburbia is changing.

I know we love the TTC and the way they're always 30 years behind urban development but I think it's worth applauding this one opportunity to be ahead of it - probably for the first time since 1974.
 
In the case of everything south of Bloor that's not along Yonge or University, they're over a century behind development. I would much rather see that dealt with than spend billions digging tunnels to empty fields.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
It's impossible to tell how far GO will morph because we're incapable of thinking big right now...if we limit it to existing rail corridors, then it's safe to say that GO improvements most certainly cannot solve all of our problems. When I said GO improvements can't replace the DRL, obviously a different rail system could take someone from Markham to Union station, but it won't be able to provide a local service along the way that's as useful...and I think the DRL's biggest plus is that it has so much more potential than simply shuttling suburbanites to the CBD.

Of course, if we start building new corridors for what GO morphs into, it'll open up all kinds of doors.
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Sadly, GO is leaps and bounds better overall, than waiting thirty+ years for another subway extension boom. DRL logically has to be a commuter rail line, it cannot exist as Network 2011 proposes it. If the existing GO network is taken into account we already a DRL staring us in our faces. Apart from meeting the subway at a few choice spots (Leslie, Union, Dundas West) we cannot expect a permanent ROW in the rail corridors. Furthermore, intermediate stops would severely minimize its potential as driving or doh the GO train would get commuters downtown alot faster. GO service improvements (once or twice an hour) and fare integration with TTC (matching networks set up in Peel, York and Durham) are the pivotal first step we should take.

In the case of everything south of Bloor that's not along Yonge or University, they're over a century behind development. I would much rather see that dealt with than spend billions digging tunnels to empty fields.
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It is sickening isn't it? The Queen car serves twice the number of people per hour than York U projectedly will. I was blasted to shame for defending a east-west subway route through the core on the basis of salvaging neighbourhoods. WTF :eek:?! I bet thousands of people avoid Queen West everyday because of the streetcar/congestion. What are they afraid of happening I ask? BD lands have barely changed in over 50 years. And of those that have transformed, could you imagine Toronto without the Danforth, Yorkville, the Annex and Koreatown? I doubt Dufferin Mall would be as popular as it is if not for a stop nearby. Either some posters here live in a waterfront condo or just don't have Toronto's best interest at heart. DRL skims everywhere and goes nowhere sans Union, but big whoop.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
And I'm personally tired of people going off about the "Sorbara Line." People who live in the 416 tend to have an awful short-sighted view of what goes on in the other side of Steeles. There are multiple proposals for 30-40 storey skycrapers along both proposed subway extensions and suburbia is changing.
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Don't you mean Sorbarbia is changing? :)

I have yet to see any evidence to support it. Mississauga, Markham, Brampton are light years ahead in creating a real regional centre compared to the Vaughan Corporate Centre, right now with one mid-rise office building, a Wal-Mart, Ikea, two gigaplexes, big box stores, and Al Palladini Ford. The Highway 7 extension tack-on to the York U extension to Steeles took everybody by surprise, though it convienently is located in the middle of the guy's riding.

The Yonge extension actually goes somewhere, and would make the most sense, if perhaps not for the overburdened Yonge line south of Finch.
 
Occasionally I have to attend business meetings at the corner of Steeles and Keele. Traffic is incredibly bad at times. Offhand, I can't think of a more difficult place, not near the subway, in the City of Toronto to get to. There is value to that subway line ... and the Region of York wants to pay to extend it further north? All the power to them.
 
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