Toronto Sherway Gardens Expansion | ?m | 2s | Cadillac Fairview | DIALOG

[jje1000]

They should've retained a second floor as an garden/amenity space (kind of like the way Calgary's Core Mall has its Devonian Gardens).

As of now, what was once a wide open space with an incredible feature (the roof) is basically reduced to a throughway corridor.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The materials is luxe, but the space lacks personality - and if experience is what sells these days what unique experience is there to make Sherway standout?

AoD

 

[junctionist]

Shocking that a mall owner would focus on the retail elements and not the spaces above.

Yes, it's rather surprising that they'd take a popular and distinguishing feature of their mall--the food court with the soaring ceilings of the tent-like roof--and remove it. The roof is still there, but there's less opportunity to enjoy it anymore. The food court was a wide open and bright space, and you could admire the design as you sat and ate. It was ingenious of the original planners to build an architecturally striking space like that where people would naturally linger while eating.

They knew not to waste something special on mere through corridors. If people remember a mall for its attractive food court, they'll remember it as a comfortable place to spend a lot of time shopping. The mall is now less distinguished, even though the renovation was supposed to keep it competitive with the other major malls.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yes, it's rather surprising that they'd take a popular and distinguishing feature of their mall--the food court with the soaring ceilings of the tent-like roof--and remove it. The roof is still there, but there's less opportunity to enjoy it anymore. The food court was a wide open and bright space, and you could admire the design as you sat and ate. It was ingenious of the original planners to build an architecturally striking space like that where people would naturally linger while eating.

They knew not to waste something special on mere through corridors. If people remember a mall for its attractive food court, they'll remember it as a comfortable place to spend a lot of time shopping. The mall is now less distinguished, even though the renovation was supposed to keep it competitive with the other major malls.

It is also to keep in mind that everyone else has upped their game as well - light-filled food courts with soaring ceilings and floor to glass walls is the rule, not the exception - and frankly the way it was implemented here actually brought down the special to the mundane ( it can't even compare positively to the one in Erin Mills TC in terms of sheer bravado of the space).

AoD

 

[officedweller]

The bare columns are calling out for pods of plants halfway up at the cross brace.

 

[jje1000]

It is also to keep in mind that everyone else has upped their game as well - light-filled food courts with soaring ceilings and floor to glass walls is the rule, not the exception - and frankly the way it was implemented here actually brought down the special to the mundane ( it can't even compare positively to the one in Erin Mills TC in terms of sheer bravado of the space).

AoD

The one thing I actually appreciate with the Erin Mills renovation is that even though they replaced the clocktower, they replaced with with an equally unique piece (the sphere).

It's moments like those that give a little bit of identity to a typically anonymously globalized space.

 

[dudedmc]

Yes, it's rather surprising that they'd take a popular and distinguishing feature of their mall--the food court with the soaring ceilings of the tent-like roof--and remove it. The roof is still there, but there's less opportunity to enjoy it anymore. The food court was a wide open and bright space, and you could admire the design as you sat and ate. It was ingenious of the original planners to build an architecturally striking space like that where people would naturally linger while eating.

They knew not to waste something special on mere through corridors. If people remember a mall for its attractive food court, they'll remember it as a comfortable place to spend a lot of time shopping. The mall is now less distinguished, even though the renovation was supposed to keep it competitive with the other major malls.

Another thing they totally lost was that the old food court was right in line with the central square... Activities that would be happening there could be enjoyed and viewed from the food court.

I find it disappointing with what CF has done to Sherway, its a mismash of malls in there rather then flowing the original styling.

 

[interchange42]

The complaints about the new food court are typically UT-OTT, with little regard to any results possible between great and terrible. No, the new Gourmet Fare's roof is not the unique and wonderful structure that the tented roof is, but the new space is fine, has lots of natural light, and there's a good selection of places to eat. Could some of the whining be down to resistance to change? Yeah, some of it could.

There were practicalities to the move. Those who read the front page story will know that the new one has 800 seats where the old only had 400. Needing more space, the choice to move it to the north was also meant to position it to close to the potential future subway station, if and when the Bloor Danforth line gets extended that far. Cadillac Fairview wants it extended to Sherway, have right-of-way reserved for the station on their property at the southeast corner of The Queensway and The West Mall, and they've offered to help pay for the station (although I don't know how much they've offered to pay). The Bloor Danforth west extension is moribund for the moment of course, but the City is working on a Sherway Secondary Plan, and it will kick life into again once the plan becomes official City policy.

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[junctionist]

The complaints about the new food court are typically UT-OTT, with little regard to any results possible between great and terrible. No, the new Gourmet Fare's roof is not the unique and wonderful structure that the tented roof is, but the new space is fine, has lots of natural light, and there's a good selection of places to eat. Could some of the whining be down to resistance to change? Yeah, some of it could.

There were practicalities to the move. Those who read the front page story will know that the new one has 800 seats where the old only had 400. Needing more space, the choice to move it to the north was also meant to position it to close to the potential future subway station, if and when the Bloor Danforth line gets extended that far. Cadillac Fairview wants it extended to Sherway, have right-of-way reserved for the station on their property at the southeast corner of The Queensway and The West Mall, and they've offered to help pay for the station (although I don't know how much they've offered to pay). The Bloor Danforth west extension is moribund for the moment of course, but the City is working on a Sherway Secondary Plan, and it will kick life into again once the plan becomes official City policy.

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I'd say the discussion is quite level headed. Some good points have emerged on how the value of memorable architectural features is diminished when the public areas around them aren't designed to provide opportunities to enjoy them. Views of the signature roof are now limited by the relatively narrow corridors, which aren't the parts of the mall where people are meant to linger. I don't see the merits of the food court's new location in terms of being close to the hypothetical subway. It wasn't discussed in the front-page article. It's more intuitive to make it a "rest area" somewhere at the heart of the mall where people can get off their feet and recharge before doing some more shopping.

As a writer, developers give you tours, behind the scenes looks, and lots of interesting information. I respect that. It may be hard to resolve that great experience with criticism of the same buildings you've written about. There's no need to be an arrogant jerk and dismiss a rational discussion as over-the-top whining. If you feel that's typical of the forum, then you're free to leave.

 

[Consilium]

UT-OTT

What does that mean in this circumstance? If I Google search it, the results are not in a particular group.

There's no need to be an arrogant jerk and dismiss a rational discussion as over-the-top whining. If you feel that's typical of the forum, then you're free to leave.

Neither I nor most Urban Torontonians would tell an administrator that's been around since non-guest members came into the forum to feel free to leave.

I have yet to visit the expansion, but I can clearly grasp Urban Toronto's aesthetics in requesting uniqueness (in this case how the food court should have been retained.)

TI

 

[toaster29]

People want shiny, new, comfortable places to shop. CF has done that here. The new food court still has high ceilings, with natural light coming in, unlike many major malls in the GTA (e.g., Yorkdale or Square One). I must say I prefer a clean-looking food court, than an old one that has a neat looking ceiling. I never understood the hype, to be honest. It felt really dated going up there. Sherway also attracts significantly more than the population of South Etobicoke would warrant, pulling from basically downtown to Oakville (along the Gardiner/QE), largely because of its location along the highway. It doesn't need to be unique, it's not like tourist are coming to Sherway to be wooed. Eaton Centre? Sure. Sherway? A higher-end suburban mall.

 

[sixrings]

i prefer yorkdale but the food court ceiling feels far too low

People want shiny, new, comfortable places to shop. CF has done that here. The new food court still has high ceilings, with natural light coming in, unlike many major malls in the GTA (e.g., Yorkdale or Square One). I must say I prefer a clean-looking food court, than an old one that has a neat looking ceiling. I never understood the hype, to be honest. It felt really dated going up there. Sherway also attracts significantly more than the population of South Etobicoke would warrant, pulling from basically downtown to Oakville (along the Gardiner/QE), largely because of its location along the highway. It doesn't need to be unique, it's not like tourist are coming to Sherway to be wooed. Eaton Centre? Sure. Sherway? A higher-end suburban mall.

 

[interchange42]

What does that mean in this circumstance? If I Google search it, the results are not in a particular group.

UT-OTT = UrbanToronto-Over-the-top.

I'd say the discussion is quite level headed. Some good points have emerged on how the value of memorable architectural features is diminished when the public areas around them aren't designed to provide opportunities to enjoy them. Views of the signature roof are now limited by the relatively narrow corridors, which aren't the parts of the mall where people are meant to linger. I don't see the merits of the food court's new location in terms of being close to the hypothetical subway. It wasn't discussed in the front-page article. It's more intuitive to make it a "rest area" somewhere at the heart of the mall where people can get off their feet and recharge before doing some more shopping.

It makes more sense as an arrivals area to me.

As a writer, developers give you tours, behind the scenes looks, and lots of interesting information. I respect that. It may be hard to resolve that great experience with criticism of the same buildings you've written about. There's no need to be an arrogant jerk and dismiss a rational discussion as over-the-top whining.

The tour was a tour, nothing more, nothing less. It does not rank up there in a life list for me that approaches anything like a "great experience". That kind of language strikes me, again, as more evidence of the hyperbole, the black-and-white or OTT declarative I see so often on UrbanToronto. There are gray areas in life and in architecture. In terms of the influence that a tour would have on me, sure, I am happy to go and learn things, but I have no trouble discerning what I like from what someone is telling me to like. I'm not doing backflips over new treatment to the south hall—and it would have been great to still allow people to get closer to it—but I don't think it's ruined. I also have already admitted that the new food court ceiling does not stack up to the old one, but I fail to see how the new one is such a failure, as per the conclusions some of you are making. There's all a bit too much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I didn't get into the repositioning of the food court re: the subway in the article; that's for another article when the proposed Secondary Plan is presented to the City. In the post, that's bonus material. You haven't commented in their wish to double the number of seats in the court, and how that left them needing to move it.

If you feel that's typical of the forum, then you're free to leave.

Good one, that's kind of hilarious.

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[junctionist]

Good one, that's kind of hilarious.

I thought it was a humourously ironic twist on an oft-repeated line on UT to annoying newbies, obviously meant to be ironic and not serious in this case. Glad to see you took it with good humour. Your departure would be met with sadness and regret because you've always a voice of reason and contributed so much to making the forum a great place. Still, I thought your post was unusually weak and an affront to a healthy discussion. To touch on the capacity issue, if they needed more capacity, they could have just added a secondary food court in a different location.

 

[interchange42]

Here's Sherway from late one evening this past week, just before closing, so not time for too many shots.

The MAC Cosmetics store reopened since my last visit…

…while a couple of other stores have now opened in this hall as well. I'Intervalle…

…and the Danish Pastry House.

Meanwhile, Matt & Nat and B2 are new names, while much of the NIKE iconography has been painted out on the hoarding to the south:

Of course, Nordstrom is now open…

A beautiful store, I thought. More shots of it in the Nordstrom thread in our Retail section. I need to get back to Sherway during the day to get better update shots.

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