Toronto Rogers Centre Renovations | ?m | ?s | Toronto Blue Jays | Populous

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I am indeed suggesting that. Sporting events take on a whole new level in the US which is evident by the concerts in Cleveland, the theatrics at every Golden Knights home game and the cannon at the Columbus Blue Jacket games. You also have the tailgating at NFL Games.

Here in Toronto, what do we have? All we have is the baseball game, you come and sit in your seat and leave in the 9th when it is all over. There is nothing special on game day here nor is there anything special inside the stadium during the games.
.
Long gone are the days of Domer the Turtle and BJ Birdie. The Fireworks of days gone by inside the stadium have long since passed. The games have become predictable and scripted, all the fun has been taken out of the experience..

Anyone who has been to a sporting event in the US can tell you how much different the atmosphere there. We simply cannot compare to the stadiums down south in terms of atmosphere.

Here's a thought - maybe all the theatrics are proof that they are LESS-great events than they seem?
The idea that you're adding a concert to your ballgame most certainly does not prove to me how great your ballgame experience is. Entirely the opposite, in fact. These are all bells and whistles to distract you from the fact that you live in Cleveland and there's no reason to go downtown, even to see the Guardians. So they throw in a concert and a bunch of other stuff to "make it worth your while."

The fact that the Jays don't have to stoop to this is a point in their favour, as far as I'm concerned (and this is leaving aside we've barely had home games since 2019).

I've been to games at Dodgers Stadium and Wrigley Field (both just before the pandemic) and neither had any of this crap. Neither was a new stadium (to say the least, in Wrigley's Case). I think Chicago and LA are pretty major American markets? Yup I got a picture with the Dodgers mascot, who is their version of Domer the Turtle or BJ Birdie, so they didn't get your memo there. No concert that night. Maybe there were some fireworks? Dodgers must be some kinda junk organization, I guess.
Let's just check their record and attendance over the past few years...

#YouAreWrong (no offence)

 

[JMSRead]

In the National League pitchers are also batters. In the American League, not so much but the pitchers do sometimes field the ball depending on where it is landing.

As for Cleveland, the stadium is open air, features real grass and opened in 1994. Also in Cleveland they have more theatrics to their games with concerts and the like pre and post game relating to the nearby Rock and Roll hall of fame. The atmosphere in US Ballparks is more vibrant, alot more vibrant than it is here in Toronto.

In comparison, Toronto has the atmosphere of a cricket match compared to the US stadiums.

National League pitchers don't hit anymore.

I've seen games in Cleveland. Hard disagree with you on that one. It's a great stadium, but absolutely not more lively.

Big Jays games are famous in MLB for being loud and intimidating (see Rangers series 2015, or opening night this season). There also was a viral tweet literally this past weekend about how vibrant the in game theatrics were for a Jays game:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1515118658732937220

 

[bigbuilds]

Amazing showing of the capabilities of the new RGBA lights, definitely brings new life to an aging stadium imo

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

As for Cleveland, the stadium is open air, features real grass and opened in 1994. Also in Cleveland they have more theatrics to their games with concerts and the like pre and post game relating to the nearby Rock and Roll hall of fame. The atmosphere in US Ballparks is more vibrant, alot more vibrant than it is here in Toronto.

In comparison, Toronto has the atmosphere of a cricket match compared to the US stadiums.

This take still makes me chuckle.. I won't post this stuff for all 81 games but LIVE FROM CLEVELAND!

I guess there's no concert today?

(The Blue Jays are averaging 32,350 people/game. 10th in the league right now. Cleveland is one of the worst in the league, averaging below 15k. And if you want to say, "It's only April!" that attendance tracks with what they had last year. You can't compare 2021 to Toronto cuz our team didn't actually have very many home games. George Springer called last night's crowd of just over 20k "electric" but I guess some people might look at this picture of like 1,000 people and think it's "a lot more vibrant," because of the grass and open air...or something.)

 

[G.L.17]

This take still makes me chuckle.. I won't post this stuff for all 81 games but LIVE FROM CLEVELAND!

View attachment 396242
I guess there's no concert today?

(The Blue Jays are averaging 32,350 people/game. 10th in the league right now. Cleveland is one of the worst in the league, averaging below 15k. And if you want to say, "It's only April!" that attendance tracks with what they had last year. You can't compare 2021 to Toronto cuz our team didn't actually have very many home games. George Springer called last night's crowd of just over 20k "electric" but I guess some people might look at this picture of like 1,000 people and think it's "a lot more vibrant," because of the grass and open air...or something.)

This is actually in the south side of Chicago, not Cleveland

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

This is actually in the south side of Chicago, not Cleveland

My bad! I came across it with a Major League GIF and the mind went straight to Cleveland
(The ChiSox are averaging just under 20k a game, [so Cleveland is 25% worse] , but they also have a retro-style, outdoors, grass ballpark and they have thingies that spin and shoot off sparks when people hit homeruns...)

Still - Chicago is not Cleveland and, yeah, that's obviously not Progressive Field or whatever it's called these days (for one, it opens up to the street in left field....)

 

[C-mac]

Maybe Chicago is missing theatrics? You need to be outside, have a good team, and have some theatrics!!! You have to be all in.

But moving the stadium away from the business district and from the cities largest transportation hub that allows other sports teams to flourish is not a big deal to baseball fans. Open air and Theatrics for the win!!!!

You can continue with this argument all you want, but at the end of the day, all you have to do is look at ballpark rankings and Rogers Centre is always around 27th behind Oakland and Tampa.

The reality is, the organization doesn't want this, and many fans don't want this. Yes there are lots of people like you that will defend it, but there's lots of people like me that would attend way more games if we had a better stadium. For every "Sixrings" and "TJ, O'Pooterfoot", there is a "C-mac" and "Richard White" that don't like the stadium.


.This discussion is happening in cities with nice ballparks like PNC Park, Camden Yards, T-Mobile Park. Hence the reason these reno's are only a "mid-term solution" not a long term one.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

You can continue with this argument all you want, but at the end of the day, all you have to do is look at ballpark rankings and Rogers Centre is always around 27th behind Oakland and Tampa.

The reality is, the organization doesn't want this, and many fans don't want this. Yes there are lots of people like you that will defend it, but there's lots of people like me that would attend way more games if we had a better stadium. For every "Sixrings" and "TJ, O'Pooterfoot", there is a "C-mac" and "Richard White" that don't like the stadium.

I don't think anyone is arguing Rogers Centre is perfect as is. The point, such as it is, is simply this. No matter how strong the arguments against it are, you have to reconcile the facts that Rogers Centre is consistently ranked as one of the worst ballparks in MLB, but it consistently has attendance 2x that of parks that are consistently ranked far higher. Camden Yards might be 10x the ballpark Rogers Centre is, but it's in Baltimore and the Orioles play there, so who cares?

The answer (kind of obviously) is that the stadium itself is not a significant factor in why people go to ballgames. It's a factor, of course, but at the end of the day when the team is good, the stadium is full, at least in this town. When it's replaced it won't be to increase attendance, per se, or to improve the fan experience, per se. It will be to generate more revenue for Rogers Corp. That's what a "better" stadium really means.

 

[C-mac]

I would think to change the location and to spend a billion dollars on the stadium you would need the vast majority to agree a new stadium should be made and then you would somehow have to determine if these people who say they want a new stadium will actually show up.

This is a business. Ball park rankings don’t matter to the jays as long as people show up and spend money.

Be careful what you ask for as well. With these new stadiums the teams need to recoup the costs. A Toronto example is that when air Canada centre opened the leaf tickets jumped substantially. We didn’t have any better a team just a new stadium to pay for. In baseball terms when new yankee stadium opened the costs jumped. Most New Yorkers are used to things be inflated yet there was huge uproar when season tickets holders were told their seats when brown located ten rows back or that the new version of their seats cost significantly more.

Agree with everything you said other then the baseball stadium rankings. They don't directly effect the busyness, but it's a indication of how desirable it's for free agents to play here, and fans to come and watch a game.

Yes it's a complicated tricky situation, and needs to be thought out carefully which is probably why they decided on the "mid-term solution". I personally think if they can find a way to just bring the height of the walls down a bit so when the roof is open, you still feel like your in a concrete bunker, it would do the trick.

 

[UrbanOzz]

ironically, i just read some clickbaity forbes baseball stadium list and Toronto was like #19 or #20 or something. it blew mind that they ranked it higher than ballparks other than Oakland and Tampa Bay (always in last).

But yea, maybe i'm in the minority here but the last thing i want is theatrics. I cringe when I watch a Portland Timbers match on tv and they saw a log whenever there's a goal, or that silly HR monument in Miami that they finally removed. Half Time Shows and mid game concerts, no thank you. Just give me an exciting ballgame to watch, a seventh inning stretch, some lighting, and i'm good to go.

That Chicago image looks terrible but there's a lot of factors at play here. it's a day game while school is still in session. it was a rescheduled game. it's 39 degrees outside. They will forever be Chicago's "other baseball team". Their location in the south side is not that desirable.

 

[C-mac]

ironically, i just read some clickbaity forbes baseball stadium list and Toronto was like #19 or #20 or something. it blew mind that they ranked it higher than ballparks other than Oakland and Tampa Bay (always in last).

But yea, maybe i'm in the minority here but the last thing i want is theatrics. I cringe when I watch a Portland Timbers match on tv and they saw a log whenever there's a goal, or that silly HR monument in Miami that they finally removed. Half Time Shows and mid game concerts, no thank you. Just give me an exciting ballgame to watch, a seventh inning stretch, some lighting, and i'm good to go.

That Chicago image looks terrible but there's a lot of factors at play here. it's a day game while school is still in session. it was a rescheduled game. it's 39 degrees outside. They will forever be Chicago's "other baseball team". Their location in the south side is not that desirable.

Not to mention, you can't say "look at Progressive Field, it's an outdoor retro park and the attendance is low", because there are other factors involved. For one, not nearly the market the Jays have. They're not even the only team in that state, never mind the area. People come from 3/4 hours up north to watch a Jays game. Also, that stadium opened in 1994 and had strong attendance for over a decade. The team was also winning back so it's hard to say how much of it was the stadium, and how much of it was the winning.

 

[Translude15]

Maybe Chicago is missing theatrics? You need to be outside, have a good team, and have some theatrics!!! You have to be all in.

But moving the stadium away from the business district and from the cities largest transportation hub that allows other sports teams to flourish is not a big deal to baseball fans. Open air and Theatrics for the win!!!!

Chicago isn't just missing theatrics, it's also missing the Richard White special: tailgating. I mean, they actually do tailgate, but they don't tailgate the right way. You need proper, full-fledged theatrics. Due to the lack of theatrics, attendance therefore drops approximately 15%

Not to mention, you can't say "look at Progressive Field, it's an outdoor retro park and the attendance is low", because there are other factors involved. For one, not nearly the market the Jays have. They're not even the only team in that state, never mind the area. People come from 3/4 hours up north to watch a Jays game. Also, that stadium opened in 1994 and had strong attendance for over a decade. The team was also winning back so it's hard to say how much of it was the stadium, and how much of it was the winning.

There certainly is a honeymoon phase for new facilities when it comes to attendance. Keep in mind, the Rangers, even after recently moving into their brand spankin' new, state-of-the-art, Costco dome, and signing a number of high-priced free agents this off-season, had an announced attendance last night of *checks notes* 20,399 (!!!)

MLB Gameday: Astros 4, Rangers 3 Final Score (04/27/2022)

Follow MLB results with FREE box scores, pitch-by-pitch strikezone info, and Statcast data for Astros vs. Rangers at Globe Life Field

www.mlb.com

Not enough theatrics.

 

[C-mac]

Chicago isn't just missing theatrics, it's also missing the Richard White special: tailgating. I mean, they actually do tailgate, but they don't tailgate the right way. You need proper, full-fledged theatrics. Due to the lack of theatrics, attendance therefore drops approximately 15%

View attachment 396496


There certainly is a honeymoon phase for new facilities when it comes to attendance. Keep in mind, the Rangers, even after recently moving into their brand spankin' new, state-of-the-art, Costco dome, and signing a number of high-priced free agents this off-season, had an announced attendance last night of *checks notes* 20,399 (!!!)

MLB Gameday: Astros 4, Rangers 3 Final Score (04/27/2022)

Follow MLB results with FREE box scores, pitch-by-pitch strikezone info, and Statcast data for Astros vs. Rangers at Globe Life Field

www.mlb.com

Not enough theatrics.

It's kind of been been repeated that both Texas and Miami really botched their new parks. Especially in the Rangers case. Their old field was better then the new one. The only issue with Texas old park was it got to hot. They could have done what both Houston or Seattle did and got a roof. Nobody knows what the Rangers were thinking.

 

[G.L.17]

Toronto is pushing for the 2027 All-Star game, shortly after the renovations are done to the dome.

Supposedly, season ticket holders in sections above the Blue Jays bullpen have been informed that the seats will not be available next year due to the renovations. Very interested to see if this will address that gap between the outfield wall and the outfield seats.

 

[Richard White]

Toronto is pushing for the 2027 All-Star game, shortly after the renovations are done to the dome.

Supposedly, season ticket holders in sections above the Blue Jays bullpen have been informed that the seats will not be available next year due to the renovations. Very interested to see if this will address that gap between the outfield wall and the outfield seats.

I would laugh if MLB denied us the game because of something relating to an aging stadium.