Toronto Rogers Centre Renovations | ?m | ?s | Toronto Blue Jays | Populous

sixrings said:
Maybe if we build an outdoor stadium then the seats will never be dirty because God will clean them for us.... Another good reason to spend a billion or two dollars Richard... I should have you as my financial advisor... Always words of wisdom.
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Maybe you could stop trying to troll people?
 
Richard White said:
Tear down the roof, then dismantle from the inside. Leave the walls up until the interior bits are down.
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This is not how structural engineering works in most cases. At all. You'd have to be horrendously careful in the way the entire building is dismantled, it's not just "leave the outer walls up, and it'll be fine". Because once you start demolishing the concourses, it's really not that easy. Also this still does not in any way address the horrendous environmental cost of tearing down a structurally-sound concrete stadium.

It is absurd to me that in a time of a massive climate crisis, we have people arguing that we need to do an environmentally disastrous teardown of a functional sports stadium so that a few thousand Jays fans (because I am sure the vast majority of people who go to games do not think about this at all) can be happier with the orientation of the field. Would it be nice? YES! Is it worth it? NO!
 
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sixrings said:
I dont need to troll Richard... He will continue to double down on demolishing a perfectly good stadium in an objectively perfect location for the sake of subjective atmosphere.
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yet you do and the whole back and forth is boring
 
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...I mean, there's always the option to agree to disagree. And it's not like one person's opinion is ever going to stop whatever the proprietors decide to do with this stadium.

That said, moar reno pics please! <3
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
...I mean, there's always the option to agree to disagree. And it's not like one person's opinion is ever going to stop whatever the proprietors decide to do with this stadium.

That said, moar reno pics please! <3
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This isn't a matter of differing opinion, this is sixrings either trying to bait people into an argument, or spamming the thread with the same sarcastic comment in every post, which at the very least should issue a warning from the mods. But the mods continue to either ignore his constant trolling, or worse, condone his behavior. I could put him on ignore, but that's just a band aid solution that ignores the problem.
 
Richard White said:
They are trying to create a Leafs Fan Deck style experience and I do not think it will work too well on the 500 level. You cannot see much of anything from up there.

If anything this will be an excuse for people to buy cheap seats and get s***faced at the game.
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I've sat up there and you can definitely see what's happening on the field, unless you're legally blind or something.

To your point, people have been buying cheap baseball tickets and getting wasted at the venue for the better part of a century. The new fan decks just add to the gameday revenue coffers.
 
T.E.C.II said:
This isn't a matter of differing opinion, this is sixrings either trying to bait people into an argument, or spamming the thread with the same sarcastic comment in every post, which at the very least should issue a warning from the mods. But the mods continue to either ignore his constant trolling, or worse, condone his behavior. I could put him on ignore, but that's just a band aid solution that ignores the problem.
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Sorry to hear that. But if this person is still playing within the rulez, there's not much that can be done about it, unless risking those rulez to be applied inconsistently...and I don't think anyone wants that. So don't engage with this person if you can and hope the chickens come home to roost on them sooner than later. And presuming there is a cause for concern here...

...and that's all I am going to say about that. And as we where about the renovations then. 😸
 
sixrings said:
I dont need to troll Richard... He will continue to double down on demolishing a perfectly good stadium in an objectively perfect location for the sake of subjective atmosphere.
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It's not subjective atmosphere. There's no question this facility has been pretty much the 3rd worst place to place baseball in the last 20 years behind Oakland and Tampa. It was just unfortunate that the timing was just a bit off in terms of the concept and when it opened. It was about 4 years to early. Over time they have made great improvements to help the place, such as making the infield dirt... flight deck...etc. The issue has never been a subjective atmosphere, it's the same issue they face today. It's atmosphere vs cost and practicality. For a long time, despite the fact it was outdated (which happened as soon Camden yards opened in 1992) the stadium was just still way to new to even think about a new one. It's obvious that despite the new renovations, the upper brass still feels they have a stadium issue or Mark Shapiro wouldn't be on record saying this is basically a band-aid solution. Texas has already had two new stadiums since the skydome opened to make the argument our stadium is still to new at this point doesn't hold merit anymore.

At this point it's about the following things in no particular order:

1) Cost vs generating revenue (not just the actual ticket sales, but will it do things like attract free agents and generate money indirectly)
2)Location
3)Can it be done without disrupting where the team plays during a new build or a complete and more significant change to the current stadium.

The place was in desperate need to be brought up modern day standards, hence they had to do something to buy time while they figure this out.

We'll see if the new reno's are good enough, or they'll have continue work through the stadium issue.
 
sixrings said:
I’ll concede that the stadium feels hollow when it’s half empty contributing to poor atmosphere. Personally I don’t think any stadium feels great when you feel like you’re the only one there. However when the jays are in wild card games and the stadium is full no one complains about the atmosphere. In fact people are reminded that the stadium “isn’t that bad.”

The problem is it’s size. The other problem is the jays not spending enough to be competitive year after year so that we are always in playoff runs. The third problem is mlb playoff schedule allowing so few teams in. And lastly baseball has twice as many games to fill those seats out making it extremely difficult in a city with plenty of other entertainment options.

When the stadium is full… opening night…. And playoffs…. The stadium is more than adequate and personally being warm and dry in October while paying Toronto ticket prices is great.
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And I'll concede when it's full, it's one of the best atmosphere's in baseball, because it's so big and you have so many people in there, but it's not a full house that often. Yes being warm and dry in October is nice, but honestly in this day and age, they could build a new retro style park with a roof that works much better like Safeco (now T-Mobile) or Miller park. Probably even better then those. As long as they don't screw it up the way Texas did. I doubt a new park is coming, I think there are some pretty smart engineers out there that can find ways bring this stadium into the modern day era.
 
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This two phase reno will finally turn a multi-use stadium into a baseball stadium. Let's give it a chance. The last thing the city// province needs to spend 100s of millions on is a new baseball stadium or the needless ecological impact recycling an impoded stadium because it isn't the best in the league.

Toronto's indecisiveness outlasted the era of tearing up streetcar networks for buses. That same indecisiveness outlasted grass eliminating turf from ballparks. A turf field is no longer the embarrassment limited to two aging domes.
 
We're circling around through these arguments again?
  1. Even if it's the 3rd-worst stadium, it's still far superior to Oakland and Tampa, not just in terms of the quality of its facilities but in terms of its atmosphere.
  2. Camden Yards may be a gold standard if we're talking simply about the BUILDING. I'd probably enjoy taking in the sites at a game attendeed by 5,000 people in Baltimore more han a game attended by 5,000 people in Toronto but:
    1. Toronto hardly ever gets that few people, even at their worst.
    2. When SkyDome is full, the fact that the architecture at Camden Yards is nicer ends up mattering a lot less. I bet it's more profitable than Camden Yards too.
  3. No one disputes that in the fullness of time, we will need a new stadium. But as annoying as its multipurpose design has been, the renos will go a long way to fixing the issues as much as they can fixed, and the stadium just isn't enough of a mess to justify demolishing right now.
  4. The fact that Texas builds stupid, over-priced stadiums that no one likes every 5 years (likely funded by taxpayers, like the current Camden Yards renos and unlike the current Rogers Centre renos) is not exactly an argument in their favour, folks. We don't even have to get into "climate change" and the carbon issues with tearing down perfectly good buildings just because of money. We just have to use common sense.
  5. We all know the stadium isn't perfect. It will be better. But all this masochism about how terrible and outdated it is etc. has become so boooooring. Go watch an A's game, wtih 5,000 people sitting in a football stadium, or a Tampa game, with 3,500 people sitting in a joke building with catwalks and a ray pool and chafing dishes beside the on-field bullpens, and try to tell me with a straight face that those are the stadiums that the SkyDome should be grouped with.
    Yes, it's outdated and one day it will be replaced. Right now it's getting major, much-needed upgrades that will be a big help. The least you could do is wait to see the results of the 100-level renos in a year or two before ruling on how little difference they made. In the meantime, take a break from saying the same stuff you've been whining about for 20 years while the work is ongoing.
    End of story. Let's move on to talk about other things, OK?
The pictures look cool!
 
I'm fine with the team staying at the Rogers Centre for the foreseeable future, and I'm looking forward to the renovations. But it's telling that of the options that were apparently on the table, they went with the least expensive one. In Shapiro's words

“The current set of upgrades are probably for the next 10 to 15 [years], but we'll still have a stadium issue,” Shapiro said. “It just gives us good runway to deal with a very complex issue on a stadium.”
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This begs the question, what major upgrades could Rogers do the stadium to really transform it for the future? The biggest thing I can think of would be to make the roof transparent. That would drastically improve the experience for times the roof is closed.
 
T.E.C.II said:
I'm fine with the team staying at the Rogers Centre for the foreseeable future, and I'm looking forward to the renovations. But it's telling that of the options that were apparently on the table, they went with the least expensive one. In Shapiro's words



This begs the question, what major upgrades could Rogers do the stadium to really transform it for the future? The biggest thing I can think of would be to make the roof transparent. That would drastically improve the experience for times the roof is closed.
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As long as they do not do something like BC place where the roof would deflate.. we should be good. They had a hole poked in it there and the whole roof caved in on itself.
 
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