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Toronto Regional Board of Trade Regional Rail Report

From the report, detailed Metrolinx's screw ups

There are many examples of infrastructure that have needed to be rebuilt when they were not designed as part of a comprehensive operations plan, including in the Toronto Region. This is particularly important in the context of regional rail, which requires complex integration with other network users, like freight rail, VIA Rail, and connecting transit agencies. West Harbour GO Station in Hamilton, for example, was built on the south side of the corridor, even though that meant that GO trains therefore need to cross the path of CN freight trains running to Niagara. Platforms on the north side would have made that unnecessary. Downsview Park station has been designed to accommodate a third express track bypassing the platforms, even though service plans indicate that it will be served by both express and local trains. At Bronte station, a station access building and ramp were recently built directly in the path of a fourth track, which would be necessary for frequent express and local service. Most importantly, Union Station was recently rebuilt without changing the original layout from the 1920s. Its layout included every second platform being very narrow since it was designed for loading and unloading sacks of mail from long distance trains. These platforms are now being used by thousands of passengers on GO Trains. The original layout was retained rather than rebuilding on a new layout optimized for frequent, high-capacity regional service. These kinds of unnecessary expenditures can be avoided when a comprehensive infrastructure plan, guided by a detailed operations plan, is created before infrastructure is built.
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W. K. Lis said:
They'll have to replace ALL the level crossings with overpasses and/or underpasses.

In which case, the accountants will say NO!
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If the trains pass every 5 minutes and close the crossing for 30 seconds, it is probably tolerable for low-traffic crossings.
 
Northern Light said:
Then again........we have an American Mayor who wants GO Service!
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To be fair though, it's only 500 metres from the Niagara Falls GO platform, to the start of the platform of the US station. By Metrolinx's standards, they could simply build a walkway with walls, a roof, and no windows, and people would just think it's the tunnel in the station! :)
 
nfitz said:
To be fair though, it's only 500 metres from the Niagara Falls GO platform, to the start of the platform of the US station. By Metrolinx's standards, they could simply build a walkway with walls, a roof, and no windows, and people would just think it's the tunnel in the station! :)
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...and NO moving sidewalks, of course.
 
Northern Light said:
www.thestar.com

Niagara Falls, N.Y. mayor says he wants a GO Train across the border

But Metrolinx says it has no plans to extend service to the U.S. town.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

Then again........we have an American Mayor who wants GO Service!
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That idea actually makes a lot of sense, connecting NY state with Toronto via regional rail.

Already quite common in border cities in places like southern China (recently opened HSR between HK and mainland China), EU countries (notably regional trains from Munich to Austria), etc. Only in North America do we think this is an "unthinkable" plan. And leave it up to Metrolinx to come up with some regulatory BS as a lazy excuse.
 
SFO-YYZ said:
That idea actually makes a lot of sense, connecting NY state with Toronto via regional rail.

Already quite common in border cities in places like southern China (recently opened HSR between HK and mainland China), EU countries (notably regional trains from Munich to Austria), etc. Only in North America do we think this is an "unthinkable" plan. And leave it up to Metrolinx to come up with some regulatory BS as a lazy excuse.
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The only way it would work is with pre-clearance customs.

Something approved for Montreal, but not delivered; but not even approved in Toronto/Niagara/Buffalo.

Even then, GO is a bit of a slow mover and low-comfort for the distance (err, time) involved.

That's not to say its a bad idea to have a regional train shuttle.

But it would, in my mind, require a number of policy changes and infrastructure upgrades; and we would probably be better served by it being run by Amtrak or Via

Though, GO would be fine if you got the travel time down low enough.

But that would mean very limited-stop service, and probably full double-tracking and other upgrades to the Grimsby sub.

Perhaps not the highest of priorities.
 
SFO-YYZ said:
That idea actually makes a lot of sense, connecting NY state with Toronto via regional rail.

Already quite common in border cities in places like southern China (recently opened HSR between HK and mainland China), EU countries (notably regional trains from Munich to Austria), etc. Only in North America do we think this is an "unthinkable" plan. And leave it up to Metrolinx to come up with some regulatory BS as a lazy excuse.
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I agree that if the service goes to Niagara Falls then going across the bridge probably makes sense. I don't think the EU and China are good examples though. Hong Kong is fast becoming just another Chinese city at this point, and open borders in the EU make crossing them easy.
 
Northern Light said:
The only way it would work is with pre-clearance customs.

Something approved for Montreal, but not delivered; but not even approved in Toronto/Niagara/Buffalo.

Even then, GO is a bit of a slow mover and low-comfort for the distance (err, time) involved.

That's not to say its a bad idea to have a regional train shuttle.

But it would, in my mind, require a number of policy changes and infrastructure upgrades; and we would probably be better served by it being run by Amtrak or Via

Though, GO would be fine if you got the travel time down low enough.

But that would mean very limited-stop service, and probably full double-tracking and other upgrades to the Grimsby sub.

Perhaps not the highest of priorities.
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Once again, a technicality that we choose to not to confront, because it is what it is.

HK West Kowloon has a regional HSR service now with mainland China (Guangzhou). The Chinese actually based the idea off of the U.S.-Canada pre-clearance model, and ended up building a highly efficient preclearance facility for China Customs in West Kowloon station with complete automation (gates that scan your national ID card / passport / mobile passport QR code). It's as simple as scanning your Presto card at a TTC faregate to get through customs.

Some may argue that HK is fast becoming another Chinese city, but crossing the HK-China border still requires passing through customs controls, even if you are a Chinese or HK citizen. That is because under the 1997 Sino-UK agreement, HK citizens hold a different passport from Chinese citizens, and benefit from a series of visa waiver exemptions that most Chinese citizens don't have.

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nfitz said:
To be fair though, it's only 500 metres from the Niagara Falls GO platform, to the start of the platform of the US station. By Metrolinx's standards, they could simply build a walkway with walls, a roof, and no windows, and people would just think it's the tunnel in the station! :)
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I can only imagine the ticket booth actually being the customs officers on either side of the tunnel. Actual enforcement before boarding a train, something that metrolinx never does.
 
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