ProjectEnd
Superstar
This is absolutely not going to happen in the next decade or more. In a political climate of 'at or below the rate of inflation', these kinds of things aren't even 'nice to haves', they're impossibilities.
Toronto Rail Deck Development | 239.43m | 72s | LIUNA | Sweeny &Co
- Thread starter Automation Gallery
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Start Fox
Active Member
As mentioned in the decision, the City can expropriate the land (I know it's air, but I'll call it land). Furthermore, the City could pay $0 for the land if it wanted to - there's no requirement for it to pay anything when expropriating (though of course the practice is to pay a "fair and reasonable" amount).
Sure, it'll be a massive construction project, but other cities have done it (see Chicago) so from a logistics/administrative point of view it's possible.
It'll cost a lot - I believe last estimate was $1-1.5 billion - but the federal government just provided $300+ million for building something like 750 affordable apartments over by the Distillery District and no one bat an eye. That sort of investment from each of the feds and the province, plus investment from the City, plus the possibility for private investment, plus already collected and future s. 37/42 funds for the area, plus a loan (which would be paid off by an on-going special tax/levy on the surrounding condos and offices) = Rail Deck Park. Once funded, I imagine construction wouldn't take particularly long, perhaps the same as a condo tower - maybe 2-3 years? My point being it's certainly doable, and sooner than you might think.
Sure, it'll be a massive construction project, but other cities have done it (see Chicago) so from a logistics/administrative point of view it's possible.
It'll cost a lot - I believe last estimate was $1-1.5 billion - but the federal government just provided $300+ million for building something like 750 affordable apartments over by the Distillery District and no one bat an eye. That sort of investment from each of the feds and the province, plus investment from the City, plus the possibility for private investment, plus already collected and future s. 37/42 funds for the area, plus a loan (which would be paid off by an on-going special tax/levy on the surrounding condos and offices) = Rail Deck Park. Once funded, I imagine construction wouldn't take particularly long, perhaps the same as a condo tower - maybe 2-3 years? My point being it's certainly doable, and sooner than you might think.
Northern Light
Superstar
The City has something approaching 400M for downtown parks stashed away. That would not cover the entire rail deck park concept; but it should fund a good chunk if not all of the east of Spadina portion (to Blue Jays Way); should that be deemed a priority.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
That's.. optimistic.
The city has taken over a decade to start construction on the John St revitalization.. and has like a 6 year construction schedule for it.
The railpath extension was announced probably 5 years ago, they are talking another 3-4 years before opening.
The Garrison Crossing Project started in what, 2006? Construction took a decade to start and it's now well over 2 years late opening.
Many other examples.
Nothing the city does is anything close to quick. Largely because of ProjectEnd's point - they are too damn cheap to pay for anything, except billion dollar gardiner rebuilds apparently.
Do I think this can / may actually happen? Yes. Do I expect to be sitting on the rail deck park basking in the sun any time in *at least* the next 10 years? hell no.
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Are you a gambler? I'd be happy to make a friendly wager...
Northern Light
Superstar
Msleylar
Active Member
Can we run an over/under on the expropriation value?
salsa
Senior Member
I feel like there are a lot of parkland-deficient neighbourhoods elsewhere where that kind of money might be better spent.
Northern Light
Superstar
I wouldn't disagree with you.
Though under current City policies the majority of that money has to be spent near the development that funded it.
There are some alternative options downtown, though land acquisition would likely be every bit as expensive (though construction costs would be lower) vs the Rail Deck.
I would personally favour, completing Moss Park (though that means displacing the Armoury); enlarging Alexandra Park and Grange Park.
As well as getting meaningful public square/parkette on Queen West, amongst other preferences.
While areas like the western 1/2 of East York, and Thorncliffe are woefully short of green space, I don't believe they would qualify for the bulk of section 37 or section 42 funds.
Likewise the former City of York and much of Northern Etobicoke where playgrounds and sports fields were placed in valley lands, to the detriment of nature, but also limiting their use at nights and in shoulder and off-season periods.
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Will we build this stupid thing before humanity gets swallowed by the oceans?
jje1000
Senior Member
Agreed, for that cost, we could essentially turn a lot of our existing parks into works of art.
I would rather the city develop a guideline for rail deck development that emphasizes a few large (Supertall?) point towers that would allow for a high permeability throughout the site (as opposed to what we have with the ORCA and MTCC developments), and spend the Section 32 money elsewhere.
Northern Light
Superstar
I do realize you plan to be the last one standing.....errr.....swimming..........LOL; but a wager with a term length exceeding a century seems a tad ambitious to me.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Haha, lets be realistic, this park will not be built in our lifetime if not partner with the private sector
id hate to hear that the city has now the 400 million bucks towards this Rail Deck Park and in 25 years it's still at a standstill
jje1000
Senior Member
That's my point- 400 million will not pay for a Millenium Park-tier quality park- a masterplan should guide private development so that it produces for Toronto the best possible result, rather than letting the private sector take the wheel (like at CIBC Square, Union Park. and the ORCA proposal).
Unless the municipal government can manage to turn it into election issues for higher order governments, it's going to be very tough to raise funding. If they can publicly start talking about putting up $400 M themselves and wanting that much each from the province and the feds, if they're successful they''ll have $1.2 B to kick it off, and that cold provide some substantial new park space.
If they bungle the election issue thing, and it doesn't become a promise from the various political parties, then they might as well rename it Bicentennial Park and put the $400 M into Apple stock so they'll have enough in 40 years to open it in '67.
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If they bungle the election issue thing, and it doesn't become a promise from the various political parties, then they might as well rename it Bicentennial Park and put the $400 M into Apple stock so they'll have enough in 40 years to open it in '67.
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