Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[tripwire]

I'm definitely in the camp that this is a freak accident, and putting up barriers is a knee-jerk reaction. Yes it's definitely tragic, but young ones like the 5 year old needs more supervision than an older individual. I do welcome the study that is happening, hopefully it will shed light on whether barriers are needed here or not.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Maybe they will put up some barriers along the trail on queens quay as well.

 

[MetroMan]

From Metro, at this link:

Temporary barrier installed on Lake Shore Blvd. where 5-year-old was killed
Eventually, permanent fencing will be erected along the stretch of road near Jameson Ave.

Barriers on the Lakeshore Blvd. W., June 2, 2017. City will announce Friday it is building temporary then permanent barriers on the stretch of Lakeshore blvd. where five-year-old Xavier Morgan died last week.

Whoa.

Several years ago when I used to live in Parkdale, I would go rollerblading over here and would often go down that steep hill with my knees bent, arms tucked to my sides and head forward in a ski position. No way to stop. You just had to keep going until the slope ended and you could slow down. I wasn't the only one. Other bladers would do the same thing. It was the only way to get to Humber if you were coming from Parkdale. Either that or take off your blades and walk down the hill in your socks.

This one time, I hit a pebble and lost balance, flailing my arms and legs around, jumping off the curb and ending up on the opposite side of Lakeshore. Lucky for me, no cars at all were around. None. I got lucky and I thought to myself that if they didn't change the grading of that slope, someone would get killed there.

 

[WislaHD]

I'm definitely in the camp that this is a freak accident, and putting up barriers is a knee-jerk reaction. Yes it's definitely tragic, but young ones like the 5 year old needs more supervision than an older individual. I do welcome the study that is happening, hopefully it will shed light on whether barriers are needed here or not.

Or maybe, our roads should be designed as streets where 5 year olds could safely traverse without supervision aside from at intersections?

 

[amnesiajune]

Or maybe, our roads should be designed as streets where 5 year olds could safely traverse without supervision aside from at intersections?

There will always be freak accidents though. You can't bubble-wrap everything in the world. At some point you have to say "yes, there is some potential danger in this, but there's no reasonable way to solve the problem".

With the MGT I'm sure that there's some way to improve the trail, but the reality is that the trail has been there for 10-20 years and this is the first time this sort of accident happened. Are we going to put up concrete walls at every spot where a once-in-a-generation accident could possibly occur?

 

[smably]

Instead of throwing up our hands in despair, why don't we make it our goal to prevent every single traffic death? That's the core of Vision Zero, and this is what happens when you commit to it:

(via https://twitter.com/Visionzeronet/status/875112319424004096)

How many five-year-old kids have to die in traffic before we bite the bullet and just put up a damn barrier between the cycle path and the highway?

 

[WislaHD]

There will always be freak accidents though. You can't bubble-wrap everything in the world. At some point you have to say "yes, there is some potential danger in this, but there's no reasonable way to solve the problem".

With the MGT I'm sure that there's some way to improve the trail, but the reality is that the trail has been there for 10-20 years and this is the first time this sort of accident happened. Are we going to put up concrete walls at every spot where a once-in-a-generation accident could possibly occur?

It's the Dutch attitude towards road infrastructure (and well, most things), and it works. They build their dykes to withstand 10,000 year storm. Here in North America we plan for a 100 year storm and you get the storm surge that flooded New Orleans during Katrina.

Same concept applies. We build our infrastructure to prevent 20-year freak accidents, and the life of a 5-year old is saved.

And I don't think I am being dramatic either. It is not just about preventing the once-in-a-generation freak accident. It is also about changing overall perception and public psychology towards the street infrastructure. Would concrete barriers lead to more usage amongst casual users, more people willing to send their 5 year old children or 75 year old parent on the street? Does it change the public's perception about the space as a place rather than a path and would that translate to more urban attitudes in this city?

 

[amnesiajune]

You can't really compare a sea wall to a sidewalk.

And I don't think I am being dramatic either. It is not just about preventing the once-in-a-generation freak accident. It is also about changing overall perception and public psychology towards the street infrastructure.

So should we put up a 16-inch high concrete wall on the edge of every sidewalk in the city? Surely that'll prevent a lot more deaths - right now we have a dozen people dying every year when they cross the road mid-block. If we're willing to put up a concrete wall for a once-in-a-generation death, why not put them up for once-in-a-month deaths?

(Obvious answer: they would change the public's perception like you said, but in a very negative way)

 

[WislaHD]

You can't really compare a sea wall to a sidewalk.



So should we put up a 16-inch high concrete wall on the edge of every sidewalk in the city? Surely that'll prevent a lot more deaths - right now we have a dozen people dying every year when they cross the road mid-block. If we're willing to put up a concrete wall for a once-in-a-generation death, why not put them up for once-in-a-month deaths?

(Obvious answer: they would change the public's perception like you said, but in a very negative way)

Well, actually, why don't we in a different manner?

Line our streets with planters and trees and benches. Put a protected cycling lane in between the sidewalk and the road. That would get the message very clearly that the mid-block is not the place for crossing, without making people feel as if they are imprisoned.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Or raise the bicycle lane 5 or 10 cm higher than the road.

 

[Megaton327]

Or raise the bicycle lane 5 or 10 cm higher than the road.

It is 5-10cm higher than the road already, actually.

 

[amnesiajune]

Or raise the bicycle lane 5 or 10 cm higher than the road.

And how do we prevent the once-in-a-generation fall to the left right as a bus or car is about to pass? I know it's nearly happened to me once - a strong gust of wind knocked me off balance in a bike lane and I nearly turned into the path of a city bus.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Not going to be done here in Toronto, because it involves spending money.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Not going to be done here in Toronto, because it involves spending money.

It's an interesting Idea but I think there is another factor then just cost for itr and it would be winter. Snowplows would probably make a mess with these in the roads and who know what would happen to them in an ice storm as well.

 

[amnesiajune]

Not going to be done here in Toronto, because it involves spending money.

On top of the snowplowing thing, it was only done in Houston because Texas A&M (a university six times the size of U of T, funding-wise) funded it as a research project.