Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

We should all consider that in general cyclists flaunt the rules of the road, no matter where you are in this city. On any given day while I walk downtown I see dozens of cyclists a) running reds, b) not stopping at stop signs, c) crossing mid-block, d) riding on sidewalks, and any number of other infractions. It's like once someone climbs on a bike they think they have a license to do whatever they want.

So I think we have to lower our expectations for cyclists' behaviour on QQ. You're going to always get idiot cyclists and that will never change, no matter what kind of signs, signals or lights are put up.
 
Speaking as a cyclist, I refuse to lower my expectations for proper cycling behaviour. I'm also not shy to call out those who deliberately (and often dangerously) flout the rules. I'm staring at you, red light Runners.
 
pstogios said:
We should all consider that in general cyclists flaunt the rules of the road, no matter where you are in this city. On any given day while I walk downtown I see dozens of cyclists a) running reds, b) not stopping at stop signs, c) crossing mid-block, d) riding on sidewalks, and any number of other infractions. It's like once someone climbs on a bike they think they have a license to do whatever they want.

So I think we have to lower our expectations for cyclists' behaviour on QQ. You're going to always get idiot cyclists and that will never change, no matter what kind of signs, signals or lights are put up.
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Yes, many cyclists flaunt the rules. So do many drivers (running reds and rolling stops being most common), and even pedestrians (look up from your phone!). Lots of people think they have a license to do whatever.
 
Skeezix said:
Yes, many cyclists flaunt the rules. So do many drivers (running reds and rolling stops being most common), and even pedestrians (look up from your phone!). Lots of people think they have a license to do whatever.
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Honestly, and I don't like to bring up anecdotes - but I have maybe seen 10 cars in my entire life running a red... Maybe less actually, I can only remember one time off the top of my head and it was two years ago.

Bicycles running reds? That's daily. Especially since I commute down Adelaide/Richmond.
 
Filip said:
Honestly, and I don't like to bring up anecdotes - but I have maybe seen 10 cars in my entire life running a red... Maybe less actually, I can only remember one time off the top of my head and it was two years ago.
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Only 10? Where you living in St Thomas or something? :rolleyes: You can see 10 cars running red lights in 2 minutes or less.
 
As someone who usually walks to work in weather like this, and is as a result very conscious of the timing of cars stopping in relation to the red light as I step off the sidewalk, I see at least one car run a red every morning. They accelerate when it's an old yellow, but by the time they hit the intersection it's red.
 
This argument is as old as the hills, but a) cyclists aren't carrying tons of glass and steel around with them, so maybe we should acknowledge that when comparing their behaviour to drivers, and b) when cyclists are forced to abide by rules of the road that were designed for vehicles much larger and faster than theirs while risking their life every day for the right to share infrastructure that was never meant to accommodate them and is occupied by drivers who are often openly hostile... it's not exactly a recipe for careful adherence to rules. And I say that as a cyclist who stops at every stop sign and red light, signals every turn, and never rides on the sidewalk.
 
Skeezix said:
As someone who usually walks to work in weather like this, and is as a result very conscious of the timing of cars stopping in relation to the red light as I step off the sidewalk, I see at least one car run a red every morning. They accelerate when it's an old yellow, but by the time they hit the intersection it's red.
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And don't forget buses. I am just about to report a TTC bus that ran a red. No yellow involved. It's not the first time I've seen it.
 
PinkLucy said:
And don't forget buses. I am just about to report a TTC bus that ran a red. No yellow involved. It's not the first time I've seen it.
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That nothing, I was on 3 buses this weekend that ran almost everyone on their route. Even turning on a red and not stopping. A fair number of yellow were seen well in advance of running the red that the drivers could easy stop for. That 3 different systems.

Give up counting the times I came close to being hit while crossing on the green with drivers blowing by me against the red.

What is a Red Light to drivers who are cluelees in the first place as well having no respect for other lives. 50% plus driver shouldn't be allow to drive including police officers.
 
smably said:
This argument is as old as the hills, but a) cyclists aren't carrying tons of glass and steel around with them, so maybe we should acknowledge that when comparing their behaviour to drivers, and b) when cyclists are forced to abide by rules of the road that were designed for vehicles much larger and faster than theirs while risking their life every day for the right to share infrastructure that was never meant to accommodate them and is occupied by drivers who are often openly hostile... it's not exactly a recipe for careful adherence to rules. And I say that as a cyclist who stops at every stop sign and red light, signals every turn, and never rides on the sidewalk.
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All very good points. Although I tire of hearing "cars are the real danger" from cyclists as an excuse to ignore rules of the road (I am not suggesting that's what you are saying) - in another thread, I was recently effectively told "cars are the real danger" in response to my comment that cyclists also need to respect flashing pedestrian crossings.

All told, the conflicts on Queens Quay should not be a surprise, given how all three groups of users (pedestrians, cyclists, motorists) could use some lessons on how to safely and legally use the road allowance and how to respect others.
 
drum118 said:
Even turning on a red and not stopping
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That's the big one. A shocking number of drivers (apparently also bus drivers, sadly) do not understand that when turning right on a red, they still need to come to a complete stop, and that the pedestrian(s) crossing the street with the signal still have the right-of-way.
 
In Europe, the bike signals are synced to the bikes. Don't have to wait or wait long before the signals change to allow them movement.

Here, the bikes have to wait, sometimes it seems forever, before the signals change to their turn. Sometimes, when there is nothing happening. So here the bicyclists give up waiting and cycle through.
 
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W. K. Lis said:
In Europe,
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Statements like this really need to be more specific. What Denmark and Netherlands do is very different from Macedonia, Portugal, and Latvia. I've not seen that behaviour in Germany or Switzerland this year either (Berlin bike infrastructure is actually very vague in most places; bike-path or sidewalk, lets find out); though I also wasn't looking for it.

An equivalent might be that in Canada right turns on a red light are illegal. While correct for some parts, it's a misleading statement for the whole.
 
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