Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[the lemur]

It's been five pages since the last bollard talk here, but I was surprised to see this on Edward Street last night:

retractable bollards at the end of a lane that goes up to an apartment building on Elm. Not sure if anyone uses the lane on a regular basis, like a waste management truck maybe, or if those only get dropped for emergency services, but for whatever purpose, I was pleasantly surprised to see them: now that lane looks more European!

So yes, you can put retractable hydraulic bollards in the ground here too it would seem, not just in European city centres, so maybe we could see them pop up, so to speak, on QQ.

42

Is this between Yonge and Bay, around where WBB used to be? I wonder if it's for resident parking.

 

[nfitz]

Seems like the companies that make them already have your concerns covered:


•Ornamental trim packages.
•Warning lights for increased visibility.
•Redundant hydraulics to allow bollards to continue to operate in the event the primary units are damaged.
•Heat trace system to keep the bollards functioning properly in snow and ice conditions.
•Sump pump to drain water from foundation pit and mechanical parts where water cannot be shed by gravity.
•Hydraulic heaters and coolers for operation in temperatures below –22 ̊ F (–30 ̊ C) or above 150 ̊ F (66 ̊ C).
•AC Power unit.
•Non-skid coating on top plate

http://www.perimsys.com/pdfs/bollards/xt-1200.pdf

How do the deal with the extreme amounts of salt that the city puts down, especially in laneways? There must be a lot of salt water leaking into those things. Will be interesting to see what they look like in 5 years.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The bones of the Queens Quay right-of-way designers, Homo naledi, have been found. See link.

 

[georgevicbell]

How do the deal with the extreme amounts of salt that the city puts down, especially in laneways? There must be a lot of salt water leaking into those things. Will be interesting to see what they look like in 5 years.

The worst thing that can happen with a bollard is that it doesn't retract - in which case remove the top of it until it's fixed....the second worst thing is that it can't deploy...so leave it un-deployed...

I would assume anything that gets installed would have a warranty period and the people manufacturing them would have different ones for different environments...assuming the city gets matching ones for our environment there shouldn't be any problems....

In the end the biggest risk for bollards is actually just cars smashing into them...and if that happens it's going to be cheaper to fix the bollard than a streetcar, or person that they would have hit instead...

 

[PinkLucy]

It depends where the bollard is being used. If they were in place to stop cars from entering the ROW by retracting only when the streetcar entered, non-retraction would be an issue. The mechanics would have to be pretty reliable.

As an aside, three cars in a row were on the Fleet St ROW last night.

 

[the lemur]

The bones of the Queens Quay right-of-way designers, Homo naledi, have been found. See link.

I really don't think it's the design that's at fault.

 

[nfitz]

If post-design travel times on the Harbourfront streetcar are now slower than they were before hand, how isn't the designer at fault?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

If post-design travel times on the Harbourfront streetcar are now slower than they were before hand, how isn't the designer at fault?

For example - if it is the result of increased boarding time at stops due to the larger volumes of users, how is the designer possibly be at fault, other than making a street more popular than before?

AoD

 

[the lemur]

If post-design travel times on the Harbourfront streetcar are now slower than they were before hand, how isn't the designer at fault?

Are there already stats on the Harbourfront streetcar to show that?

Also, if you are in fact referring to the 509 Harbourfront, a significant portion of its route is not on the revitalized QQW at all and is affected by other factors such as traffic at Bathurst/Fleet.

 

[PinkLucy]

Anecdotally, I don't find the 509 slower than before. When it was first brought back, it was, but signal timing and priority have since been revised, as per the plans.

 

[nfitz]

For example - if it is the result of increased boarding time at stops due to the larger volumes of users, how is the designer possibly be at fault, other than making a street more popular than before?

Hypothetically you are correct.

However, the analysis that Steve Munro published showed that the additional time for certain segments was consistently higher even at times of the day where there'd be little ridership; while other segments are unchanged (like from York to Union Station), where there's no new interference

Are there already stats on the Harbourfront streetcar to show that?

Yes - see http://stevemunro.ca/2015/08/31/the-evolution-of-service-on-queens-quay/

Does this surprise anyone, given how many more traffic lights there are for the streetcar?

Also, if you are in fact referring to the 509 Harbourfront, a significant portion of its route is not on the revitalized QQW at all and is affected by other factors such as traffic at Bathurst/Fleet.

Look at the analysis. It's the rebuilt portions that the issue.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well, it's still early yet, and a slightly longer ride vs. a much more intensively used waterfront - I think I know where I would place my priorities.

AoD

 

[PinkLucy]

^^^ And perhaps that's why it doesn't seem to take overly long. It's a pleasant ride.

As noted in the comments on that Steve Munro article, the "go slow" orders have an impact

 

[nfitz]

Well, it's still early yet, and a slightly longer ride vs. a much more intensively used waterfront - I think I know where I would place my priorities.

The priority is to have maintained 2-way traffic on Queens Quay and provide frequent convenient crossing of the tracks for cars.

That's not where I would have placed my priorities.

As noted in the comments on that Steve Munro article, the "go slow" orders have an impact

True. Though the slow order is in effect because the poor design is leading to frequent auto/streetcar and even pedestrian/streetcar interactions, that is putting lives at risk. I'm not sure we can use the design being poor as an explanation of why the design isn't at fault!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The priority is to have maintained 2-way traffic on Queens Quay and provide frequent convenient crossing of the tracks for cars.

That's not where I would have placed my priorities.

Thankfully, the degree of enjoyment expressed by the general public have demonstrated your priorities are somewhat off.

True. Though the slow order is in effect because the poor design is leading to frequent auto/streetcar and even pedestrian/streetcar interactions, that is putting lives at risk. I'm not sure we can use the design being poor as an explanation of why the design isn't at fault!

Streetcars in town general does that everywhere - so perhaps we should take the easy way out an get rid of them altogether, given how slow they are as well? Now is that your position based on what we know about the historic auto/pedestrian/streetcar interactions (which is hardly new)?

The issues with the route are minor, and should be resolved through gradual fine-tuning and does not really represent any fundamental failure as a mixed-used route.

AoD