Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

CDL.TO said:
Thought the MGT was going to be wider than that. That really isn't all that wide for a bi-directional trail that's expected to be very busy in the summer.

Also, prediction: by the end of summer we're going to be hearing complaints about pedestrians standing in or wandering into the bike path without looking.
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No, it isn't that wide. However some stretches of it elsewhere are equally wide--while a lot of it is wider, for portions of it riders have to make do with a tighter fit. I've generally found it's not too bad, but we'll have to wait and see.

I'll bet anything and everything that you're 100% right on the pedestrians. There is absolutely no bloody way that doesn't happen from day one, every single day of every summer. I'm actually pretty worried that it'll be useless most of the summer...you'd have to ride at <5 km/h and constantly stop to ask people to move.

You can tell by the current jaywalking epidemic; multiple times I've had a streetcar miss a green because of stupid pedestrians...where on Earth is the enforcement? Isn't jaywalking illegal? Why don't some of the paid duty officers on the street just start writing a $250 or whatever ticket to every single person who jaywalks right in front of a moving vehicle? That'll send a message and it'll probably come to an end real quick. It's been very frustrating for me, say nothing of the streetcar drivers...
 
CDL.TO said:
Also, prediction: by the end of summer we're going to be hearing complaints about pedestrians standing in or wandering into the bike path without looking.
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In person, it's actually very obvious that you're stepping into a roadway. The indentations in the sidewalk make it clear that the pedestrian area ends. The row of trees, benches, poles and of course the asphalt all help delineate the end of the pedestrian realm. Road markings will further make it clear. You wouldn't step into a paved street would you?
 
MetroMan said:
In person, it's actually very obvious that you're stepping into a roadway. The indentations in the sidewalk make it clear that the pedestrian area ends. The row of trees, benches, poles and of course the asphalt all help delineate the end of the pedestrian realm. Road markings will further make it clear. You wouldn't step into a paved street would you?
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Ride the 509 one of these days. Lots of pedestrians are stepping into both the TTC ROW and the paved roadway when they're not supposed to. I agree that it's obvious, and a sensible, sane person wouldn't do it, but a lot of the tourists down there simply do not care.
 
CDL.TO said:
It's quite the transformation! Can't wait to check it out for myself!

Thought the MGT was going to be wider than that. That really isn't all that wide for a bi-directional trail that's expected to be very busy in the summer.

Also, prediction: by the end of summer we're going to be hearing complaints about pedestrians standing in or wandering into the bike path without looking.
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I predict the popularity of the trail will quickly outgrow it's capacity.
 
Megaton327 said:
Ride the 509 one of these days. Lots of pedestrians are stepping into both the TTC ROW and the paved roadway when they're not supposed to. I agree that it's obvious, and a sensible, sane person wouldn't do it, but a lot of the tourists down there simply do not care.
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I can see eventually they will need a barrier between the ROW and the bike path. A low median with trees doesn't do it. It looks open and nice, but people will cross over it if it's convenient.
 
11th said:
I can see eventually they will need a barrier between the ROW and the bike path. A low median with trees doesn't do it. It looks open and nice, but people will cross over it if it's convenient.
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Actually I would say it would be more important to have one between the bike path and the pedestrian promenade, but I don't see them doing it.
 
Megaton327 said:
Actually I would say it would be more important to have one between the bike path and the pedestrian promenade, but I don't see them doing it.
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If cyclists do like in Germany and just gun for pedestrians then they'll learn soon enough
 
Canadian Chocho said:
Perhaps a stupid question but is there anything special about the large surface parking lot by Reese and Queens Quay? I haven't down by the waterfront in a while and was only remembered of this large lot just now on Streetview. I wonder why there is never talk or rumours of developing it, is there something already in store for it?
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It's a great question. I've asked this myself. That lot is an eyesore.
 
MetroMan said:
One aside: the public realm on Queens Quay now looks so beautiful and well done that the buildings lining it really stand out for the worse. I hope that the property owners see the potential in now turning their street levels into businesses facing Queens Quay, not just the water.

Perhaps market forces will easily take care of this. A condo corporation might see the financial advantage of terminating leases for dry cleaners and sandwhich/pizza shops and relocating residential amenities and consolidating their podiums into square footage that'll attract higher performing restaurants, cafes and bars.

Some buildings like those on the east side of York Quay could be demolished entirely and replaced with higher quality retail.

Another issue are the large number of parking garages. I'm not sure how this can be dealt with as you can't eliminate parking but digging underground into what was a former part of the lake is a very expensive capital expense that might not justify the increase in lease revenue.

It'll be interesting to see how property owners take advantage of the world class street that was just plopped down in front of them.
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Yep, exactly. I've been wondering this since WT announced the rebuild years ago. The area is now in a strange economic no man's land, with first-rate landscaping and fourth-rate retail/businesses.

Hopefully market forces do take care of it, and I'd hope sooner rather than later. Though I'm not optimistic.
 
MetroMan said:
In person, it's actually very obvious that you're stepping into a roadway. The indentations in the sidewalk make it clear that the pedestrian area ends. The row of trees, benches, poles and of course the asphalt all help delineate the end of the pedestrian realm. Road markings will further make it clear. You wouldn't step into a paved street would you?
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The design is decent and it should be obvious. But yet, I stand by my prediction. The area will be full of people who are only visiting and even with all the visual cues there's a surprisingly large number of people who will wander into anything which isn't 30 feet wide with automobiles speeding down it.
 
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Miscreant said:
Yep, exactly. I've been wondering this since WT announced the rebuild years ago. The area is now in a strange economic no man's land, with first-rate landscaping and fourth-rate retail/businesses.

Hopefully market forces do take care of it, and I'd hope sooner rather than later. Though I'm not optimistic.
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There are some obvious places to start where market forces will likely prevail. The condos that already have retail on Queens Quay will start attracting higher quality retail simply because the demand will be there and the supply is limited. A dry cleaner can't compete with lease valuations multiple times higher than that of the old Queens Quay. Restaurant entrepreneurs with deep pockets will gladly step in to take position on a world class waterfront with room for patios.

Hotels might have already begun drafting grand plans for reorienting themselves towards Queens Quay. The Radisson is ripe for redevelopment of its retail component. Right now it's a series of cheap restaurants and gift shops. Perhaps the property is worth a complete re-do. The Weston is complex but it too can be redeveloped and there is a growing financial incentive to do so.

The less obvious targets might take more time. Condos with no retail might find it compelling to replace first floor party rooms with street facing retail as existing retail square footage on Queens Quay begins to fill up and the offers start to spill in.

The York St ramp is slated to be taken down and filled in. No doubt, high quality retail will fill that gap as well.

The biggest challenges will be replacing exposed parking garages. Harbour Square is going to be a thorn on Queens Quay for quite some time. With Waterfront Toronto completing its part, the real fun is about to begin with the private sector finding ways to cash in on the public investment.
 
MetroMan said:
The York St ramp is slated to be taken down and filled in. No doubt, high quality retail will fill that gap as well.
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You do realize that land is a park, right? You won't be seeing any retail there.

As for exposed parking garages, there is really only just the Weston garage. The rest are all either above street front retail, or hidden behind it.
 
Tuscani01 said:
You do realize that land is a park, right? You won't be seeing any retail there.
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It's city owned property. It could be leveraged for a land swap, perhaps with the Westin. Free up their south side property for a large park at the foot of Yonge Street in exchange for height (and tax incentives) on the York St ramp lot and their convention centre property.
 
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