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Toronto prices decline 15% in mid-October

TKTKTK said:
The media is merely doing its job: reporting. It's up to readers to make up their own mind. It isn't as if the media has shied away from printing TREB's platitudes for the last couple months.

Also, the fluctuation in consumer confidence can probably be better linked to media reports from the USA, or from the world, rather than from regional real estate news.
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Isn't it funny that some people and TREB didn't have issues with the media and their reporting when prices were rising from 1996 to 2007, always quoting 'experts' saying to buy now or be priced out forever ?!?!?

Why is it soo difficult for people to understand that RE values go through cycles that typically follow the business cycle?

Prices went up for along time and increased beyond a balanced market; now finally the economy is slowing and prices will go down to reflect its true value which historically is 3.5x average income and reflective of 4% annual appreciation. So a property worth 1.60x 1996 value would be its' true value, and not 2.25x values I still see.
 
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Here here! Just had a bike ride through West Lakeshore/Port Credit area. Surprising to see so many houses for sale. Some were there over a month ago, when I did my last tour through the area.
 
panekkkk said:
Okay, given all this info I need a little advice.

First let me lay down my general impression:

- The resale price of Toronto real estate is dropping
- However, this is driven largely by a drop in luxury homes, while the downtown condo market is still seeing increases (albeit minor)
- Anyone know where good median data can be found?

I am considering purchasing a condo, sometime in February or March. Should I wait until then, will downtown condo/loft prices drop further? Projections anyone? Or should I rent?

I am hoping to have 20% down for a 300-400k condo/loft. I keep seeing very conflicting opinions on whether it is worth it to rent or buy at this point. I plan on staying for at least five years, and if not, renting it out.
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Hi panekkk,

Can you provide some info on the condo/loft you are considering like location, size, etc.

Also, since you asked about renting, how much would the equivalent unit be to rent since that gives you an idea of how much you would receive if you were to buy/rent it out later.

Would it cover your costs for mortgage, maintenance fees and property taxes, etc?

ps - do you have a RE agent yet?
If you can get some listing info from one regarding listings and sales (CURRENT AND EXPIRED), they will show you how much they are asking, selling for, and how long the property has been on the market.

Keep in mind, there is a practice among the RE industry to take a property off the market after it has been sitting for awhile and re-list it after a few days to give the impression it is new listing, sometimes with a price reduction
 
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fieras said:
Could you qualify that statement? I see absolutely no evidence of this, downtown condos that I've been monitoring over the past few months are all dropping
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From what I have seen in the few places I am looking at, this is not true. In fact the prices have gone up to a point I dont even understand. I sure hope you are right cause I have been waiting for one since feb. and was waiting due to advice from people. In the last few months I have seen 5 condos go for sale at one place I am looking at and the price has gone up each time a new condo has come up for sale. I speak to my agent and he tells me the sale price and everytime it has sold for more. Yes it could be a lie, but dont think so. Now I am looking at one. I would say my dream condo hands down. But its way out of my price range. The same place had a condo for sale 2 months ago and it went for $50,000 then what the guys is asking for now. Sure the new one is 7 floors higher but even at $1500 a floor no way the price difference should be $50,000.
By no means am I an expert but I am on it day in and day out. This is what I have seen. I sure hope no one puts and offer and I can somehow get it for $80,000 less. But, I know I am dreaming. LOL. It is my dream condo.
Take Care
 
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Even in a super brutal market, some properties will continue to appreciate - it all has to do with the area and the product.

I don't think we're at a point in the market where it's 100% clear in what direction it's all going to go in. I suspect that you'll find just as many condos appreciating (brand new, built, registered?) as depreciating (CityPlace?)

I posted the article more for the fact that it's one of the few times real estate writers have called out the TREB as jingoists.
 
Monarch has some incentives on a few of their condos. I just received an e-mail. 1 per cent off purchase price, and free maintenance for a year. It is getting (mildly) competitive out there.
 
Note that I disclosed the source of the info to make known the potential bias, and that I emphasized not his opinions, but numbers he cites. Criticism of the post might take the form of doubting the validity of the data, or the conclusions drawn from the data. Dismissing the data based only on who shared it simply doesn't contribute anything to the debate.

After all, everyone has a vested interest of some sort in the real estate debate. As with all forums which deal with that subject matter (I read curbed.com a lot, it's quite entertaining!) the participants here can always be divided between "sucker owners" and "bitter renters".

For that reason, we should stick with dealing with hard data and opinions rooted in some sort of objective, rational framework. Everything else is just wishful thinking, on both sides.
 
There's an entire generation of echo boomers waiting patiently for house prices to drop before they leave their rented abodes or parents' basements and scoop up condos, or cheap houses in the burbs. Specuvestors may get screwed, but real people quite appreciate housing market cycles...as long as the cycles match up with their buying/selling needs, that is.
 
That's always the case though - different people are looking to buy, looking to sell, upsizing, downsizing, and so on. The difference is that easy credit and low rates over the past few years have meant that home ownership rates are above historical norms. It follows logically that there are less people 'on the sidelines' than usual, because many of the people who would have previously been in that situation have already bought places on the 0/40 plan.
 
BobBob said:
After all, everyone has a vested interest of some sort in the real estate debate. As with all forums which deal with that subject matter (I read curbed.com a lot, it's quite entertaining!) the participants here can always be divided between "sucker owners" and "bitter renters".
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Always is a dangerous word. There are two other groups you are missing. The bitter owners (those that own but know financially it's not a smart move but are forced to do it anyways) and the happy renters (those that rent and are happy with their arrangement). If you don't think the above groups exists, then you probably also bought into the notion that "everyone that can (or for that matter cannot) own a home should own a home". But wait a second,....Isn't that the message that was being broadcasted that got us here in the first place ??
 
condoboy said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by condoboy
I would rather lose the shirt off my back than line the pockets of some blood sucking landlord (who gives a rat's ass about his tenants) and is salivating at the thought of a market crash....I am not a flipper or investor as many people on this forum believe. However growing up as a kid of immigrant parents from Europe I watched my parents struggle and only begin to invest in themselves with the purchase of their first home...after years of renting and fear of buying because of people that told them how much of a HUGE risk it was to buy...I told myself a long time ago, that same thing was NOT going to happen to me!


Quote:
Originally Posted by lowesthangingfruit
Such a convicted view point with no flexibility based on emotions is very dangerous CB.

But just out of curiosity, if you are really a buy and hold kinda of guy, why do you care if your property goes up or down 30%. It's irrelevant if your going to hold it through several market cycles as you imply since your not a flipper nor investor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condoboy
You answered your own question with your first statement (flexibility) and diddn't even realize it...
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Wait a minute, I'm gonna have to call you out on this one condoboy.

You just indicated that owning is good and renting is bad and all landlord's are parasites and you will never rent. How is that consistent with a "flexible" view ??

Further more, why do you even care where RE goes if you are not gonna flip nor are you an investor looking to make money off your RE holding ?? Something doesn't jive here.
 
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