Toronto Pan Am Village in the West Don Lands | ?m | ?s | DundeeKilmer | KPMB

What exactly is the benefit of using gravel? Seems like that would severely limit the functionality (and aesthetic appeal) of the space.
 
Well I'm not a landscaper, but I'd say:

- It's relatively hard wearing compared to turf;
- It provides a relatively firm surface;
- It's permeable to water and air, for roots and drainage;
- It's low maintainence and easy to "fix"/replace; and
- It's inexpensive.

As I said, it's pretty common in Europe and there are a number of great looking parks/squares that use it.
 
Ive never like this square, I suppose it offers contrast to Corktown Common across the street but its just so.... austere. There is literally nothing there, which could be good for farmers markets, street displays etc but somehow i have a feeling this will just lie empty for a while. Some decorative paving could've really helped here.
The wide spacing of the benches and the lack of seating which faces each other also makes this feel like a very isolationist kind of space where interaction may be frowned upon.

Heres to hoping the good of the space comes to light quickly.
 
mrxbombastic said:
Ive never like this square, I suppose it offers contrast to Corktown Common across the street but its just so.... austere. There is literally nothing there, which could be good for farmers markets, street displays etc but somehow i have a feeling this will just lie empty for a while. Some decorative paving could've really helped here.
The wide spacing of the benches and the lack of seating which faces each other also makes this feel like a very isolationist kind of space where interaction may be frowned upon.

Heres to hoping the good of the space comes to light quickly.
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For some unknown reason, almost all of Toronto's parks are designed this way. It's almost like our politicians are trying to keep us from communicating with each other. Every time I go to NYC, it reminds me how different our parks are from what they have. Parks there, have seating in clusters, where people can (and do) interact. It's almost like a public square in a park and it's a much more animated design. The same isolationist design was used in Corktown Common. There is no real focal point with seating. It should be located near the main entrance to the park, yet no thought seems to be given to that. I wish this design trend would come to an end. Our parks need to be more animated and social.


Let's face it, this square is not beautiful or even attractive. I hope it's used for a lot of events or it will probably sit empty, just like Canada/Ontario Squares, on the waterfront. The thing that I find most frustrating about Toronto is our lack of ambition and creativity. We have been building a number of new parks and public squares from scratch. These spaces had the potential to be unique, amazing, beautiful places and yet, despite the promises, we end up with parks that are only decent but ordinary. Why can't we aspire to build the most beautiful, innovative, unique, distinctive, stylish, amazing parks in the world? We are becoming a world capital and major city, yet we seem to lack any desire to really compete with the big boys. Would it kill us to actually have 1 park on a world's top 10 list? Why is it only cities like Paris, New York and London aspire to great design? There is no reason for Toronto not to try to up our game and compete with the best. If we can do better, why aren't we doing it? Too many people, including members on this site, are happy with mediocracy. That's not the way to build a great city. (or even a good one) OK, my rant is coming to an end.
 
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Torontovibe said:
For some unknown reason, almost all of Toronto's parks are designed this way. It's almost like our politicians are trying to keep us from communicating with each other. Every time I go to NYC, it reminds me how different our parks are from what they have. Parks there, have seating in clusters, where people can (and do) interact. It's almost like a public square in a park and it's a much more animated design. The same isolationist design was used in Corktown Common. There is no real focal point with seating. It should be located near the main entrance to the park, yet no thought seems to be given to that. I wish this design trend would come to an end. Our parks need to be more animated and social.


Let's face it, this square is not beautiful or even attractive. I hope it's used for a lot of events or it will probably sit empty, just like Canada/Ontario Squares, on the waterfront. The thing that I find most frustrating about Toronto is our lack of ambition and creativity. We have been building new parks and public squares from scratch. These spaces had the potential to be unique, amazing, beautiful places and yet, despite the promises, we end up with parks that are only decent. Why can't we aspire to build the most beautiful, innovative, unique, distinctive, stylish, amazing parks in the world? Would it kill us to actually have 1 park on a world's top 10 list? Why is it only cities like Paris, New York and London aspire to great design? There is no reason for Toronto not to try to up our game and compete with the best. If we can do better, why aren't we doing it? Too many people, including members on this site, are happy with mediocracy. That's not the way to build a great city. (or even a good one) OK, my rant is coming to an end.
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Call Rick Mercer. This needs to go to air.

100% agree. In Battery Park, for example, they are purposefully putting in movable seating after studying how people interact in the park. This just makes sense. I find some of our older parks do better in the social aspect. the stage or garden at St. James park is a great social place. always see people congregating there. One of my favourites however is the chess(?) benches at City halls at the Q+B intersection. people just sitting their eating their food having face to face conversation. Humans are social creatures, now acknowledge it and celebrate it.
Corktown Common is great imho, i think it will get better as time goes on. The pavilion acts as a node there in my opinion with the rentals and open spaces which can be used for table and such. But in the marshy area they need to do something to add some seating. its such a scenic place but it lacks and real area to just "take in the nature."
 
I think in Corktown Common, the main gathering space/focal point, should have been located at the entrance of the park. It should have been a paved, public square design with a water feature or major piece of art. It also should have had a long, curved, winding bench where people could talk, eat lunch or watch buskers, surrounded by other people. It would need to be a true gathering place, near the street, where passers by, can see the action and be drawn into the mix. It needs to be a gateway to the park.

And yes, I agree, St. James Park is one of our best parks and the most animated. I also see more people talking and inter-acting in the main square (the area with the fountain) than just about any other park in Toronto. That's what I mean about a focal point. The fountain, gardens and gazebo, all work to create that focal point and bring people together, encouraging them to actually communicate. Thanks for mentioning that. You used a good example of what I was saying. I just want it done on a much larger, grander scale. We ain't little, old Hogtown anymore. We need to think big. (and smart)
 
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Why does everyone have to communicate with one another? Some people like going to parks for solitude, or to enjoy them with their companion, or a friend.
 
Well exactly, shouldn't a city provide parks for all types of people or in larger parks like Corktown Common, provide both options? Secluded, isolated parks are great but we also need options for people who like being around other people, especially in the downtown core. Usually people who live downtown, like being around and interacting with other people. Parks in a central, urban setting should be designed to encourage people to socialize and get to know each other. Too many people feel isolated from each other as it is. The internet does not fill that need.

Where did I suggest that ALL parks should be built for social interaction? What I'm saying is that mostly all our parks are for people like you. (parks for solitude) What do you do if you don't want solitude and actually like animated spaces? Well, in downtown Toronto, you don't have many options besides public squares. Why do social parks work in NYC and Paris? Yet you don't think we should have that here? I'd be happy with a 65/35 split. Is that too much to ask?
 
^That's a good point. However, I think the previous comments were lamenting a lack of social spaces in our overall portfolio of parks and using the park examples in this thread to vent on this issue.

I think the key is diversity of use and equal geographic access to this diversity. What I mean is that people everywhere in the city should have as close proximity as possible to park spaces that are both isolating and social in nature.

The balance of this diversity would ideally also consider the context of the park. A dense area would probably be more in need of isolation. A low density area would probably be more in need of more social interaction in the spaces.
 
I think this new park looks great, say if I wanted to read alone (what I say many people doing at Washington Square Park in NYC) on the benches, just needs a tree canopy, which will happen in a few years!
 
One Nut Kruk said:
Why does everyone have to communicate with one another? Some people like going to parks for solitude, or to enjoy them with their companion, or a friend.
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They don't it's just that almost every new park is designed without that in mind. We have enough boring solitude finding parks already.
 
Hamiltonian said:
I think this new park looks great, say if I wanted to read alone (what I say many people doing at Washington Square Park in NYC) on the benches, just needs a tree canopy, which will happen in a few years!
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Agreed! The trees will grow very large here and about 2 to 3 feet per year. I'm kinda happy that some won't be visiting it because its not a zoo with street buskers and fountains. It's handsome and elegant and designed with future farmer's markets in mind.

And if anyone thinks Corktown Common has design issues then they are out of their skull. It's gorgeous and designed by actual landscape architects.
 
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