Toronto Ontario Place | ?m | ?s | Infrastructure ON

Civdis said:
What a joke! Let me get this straight, it would be better to let this site languish as an under used asset than develop it as a place where people can gather and enjoy it, all so that we don't increase traffic on a major transportation corridor. Not to mention the fact that there will be enhanced GO service and a new subway line serving this area.
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The problem is the f'n 2,500 stall parking garage, which encourages many more people to drive and make the horrible traffic even worse. Why spend billions on a new subway line plus enhanced GO service when you're going to incentivize people to still drive to a destination that multiple great transit options.
 
kotsy said:
The problem is the f'n 2,500 stall parking garage, which encourages many more people to drive and make the horrible traffic even worse. Why spend billions on a new subway line plus enhanced GO service when you're going to incentivize people to still drive to a destination that multiple great transit options.
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I get your point, but don't forget that this is a "Provincial" asset and many families from outside the GTA may prefer or even need to drive a car to get there.
 
Civdis said:
I get your point, but don't forget that this is a "Provincial" asset and many families from outside the GTA may prefer or even need to drive a car to get there.
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It's not like Exhibition Place already has swaths of parking space right?

And the place the province wants to put their behemoth parking garage is...right on the Exhibition grounds.

The province put themselves into an idiotic predicament by forcing themselves to provide unnecessary parking that already exists, and they made the situation worse by forcing an unnecessary relocation of the OSC onto current parking space.
 
Amare said:
It's not like Exhibition Place already has swaths of parking space right?

And the place the province wants to put their behemoth parking garage is...right on the Exhibition grounds.

The province put themselves into an idiotic predicament by forcing themselves to provide unnecessary parking that already exists, and they made the situation worse by forcing an unnecessary relocation of the OSC onto current parking space.
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Totally disagree, there are many times that the "swaths of parking" you speak of are not available. Think TFC games, CNE, major conventions, an expanded year round Budweiser Stage, new Science Centre, etc etc. If Ontario Place is to be developed into a major attraction, drawing far more visits than it currently does, you need a certain amount of parking.
 
Civdis said:
Totally disagree, there are many times that the "swaths of parking" you speak of are not available. Think TFC games, CNE, major conventions, an expanded year round Budweiser Stage, new Science Centre, etc etc. If Ontario Place is to be developed into a major attraction, drawing far more visits than it currently does, you need a certain amount of parking.
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We'll agree to disagree on this one.

In my books, this spa will not be a huge draw after 5 years of operations. Thus that parking garage that the province screwed themselves on will see dwindling numbers, and will become useless in the sense that the current parking around the area would be able to accommodate the attendance numbers for the facility. The province is using the Science Centre relocation as a reason to justify the parking garage, nothing more. The current parking around Exhibition Place and Ontario Place is enough to accommodate TFC games, conventions and the Budweiser Stage. Especially as GO handles a very heavy amount of commuters into the area.
 
rdaner said:
^Crazy idea but wouldn’t it be amazing if this garage were built so as to be convertible to other uses.
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I would suggest a site for an European based health spa, but thanks to Doug...another space has already been spoken for. /sigh
 
picard102 said:
What's the drop off at Wonderland or Wet N' Wild after the first 5 years? The latter has 1060 parking spots.
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I cant speak to the numbers at both sites, but both cater to a completely different audience.

I'll also add that Wet N' Wild has gone over a completely renovation and redevelopment in the past 10 years, in large part because their numbers were dwindling. Wonderland is always adding and refreshing their assortment. Both have gone through ownership changes as well.

This spa on the other hand....it's not going to get stale really fast. Heck, I dont even know who would be willing to operate the thing if (and when) Therme goes under.
 
Wonderland is world class, it is the most visited seasonal amusement park in North America. Its closest competitors are 6 or more hours away, it has no competition this side of the border. Therme has more to compete with.

Wonderland also has poor transit accessibility. Relative to its peak daily visitors the transit capacity is abysmal. That is, 25k daily average across the season with say a peak at 2x that, 50k people relative to capacity of local and regional buses.

Comparatively, the entire Ontario Place site projects a peak of ~29k visitors across one day. The OL’s design capacity is more than that per hour in one direction. One single crush capacity GO train can hold over 5000 people.
 
Civdis said:
I get your point, but don't forget that this is a "Provincial" asset and many families from outside the GTA may prefer or even need to drive a car to get there.
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Which is why virtually everywhere else Therme has built, it has been in a suburban or even ex-urban location, where it can be surrounded by cheap parking.
 
Northern Light said:
Which is why virtually everywhere else Therme has built, it has been in a suburban or even ex-urban location, where it can be surrounded by cheap parking.
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Beyond parking, they build were they can find cheap real estate. If Therme had to purchase the Ontario Place lands at market value, it would probably take 300+ years for the project the break even.
 
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