Toronto Ontario Place | ?m | ?s | Infrastructure ON

[Northern Light]

Well, this took most of the day… front page story. Hopefully you'll find some new info in their, maybe not, but I've tried to put all the major points of what has been announced into one article.

I'll have some detail renderings to post in here later… after dinner sometime.

42

Excellent work! Very much appreciated.

I'm not going to copy/paste the Front Page article linked above, it's very much worth a read!

That said........I will highlight this bit:

The government is also talking with the Ontario Science Centre about creating "science-related tourism and educational programming at the Cinesphere and pod complex,"

That bit intrigues and pleases me.

 

[Bluffers416]

I can see expanding the Budwisers venue for years round us being successful long term. The outdoor playground will have to reinvent itself every few years to stay profitable. I don't see this kind of spa complex working here. My guess it would fail to turn a profit and go under within a decade of opening.

Great to see that the Cineshpere and Pods are being refurbished. Hopefully they'll be put to good use. I always thought the Pods would be perfect gallery spaces that featured the works of artists from around Ontario.

 

[interchange42]

Okay, dinnered. Some slightly closer-up pics and their wider shots:

I see why @Johnny Au thought we were getting two venues here; that's quite the two lower sections, seems like more space than necessary for back-of-house. I have crawled around the BOH at the Budweiser stage, and yes, there is lots of dressing room space, management offices, equipment staging area, etc. Whatever they are planning here would be far in excess of what they have now if those other areas at ground level (and you can see it in back as well) are not public spaces.

Meanwhile, the bigger deal in these two pics is that the East Entrance to Ontario Place is simply gone, the channel filled in, and the East Island turned into a peninsula. However, as no architect has been announced for this facility yet, and as they don't plan to have this up and running until (close to) 2030, I'd say that everything you see here is likely notional at this point, and not to be taken too seriously as an example of a ready-for-submission proposal.

Yes, everything here looks very cool, mostly because it cannot possibly be supported with the impossibly slender mullions on view… or is it that far off? What Therme have built so far actually does look somewhat like what is depicted here at their Schwarzwald location in Deutschland:

That part of Europe definitely deals with snowy winters so, what you're seeing above is not out-of-the-realm-of-the-possible here. (And here's more of the plans for here…)

Okay, okay, so they are fudging it somewhat... but still, the pic above shows that the framing doesn't have to be super heavy.

Meanwhile, things;

Is that an glass-sided rooftop pool, upper left below? Looks to be.

Is that a total replacement and widening of the bridge from the CNE over the Lake Shore? I'm saying yes. Looks like there's also a new accessible entry cut into the hill that the West Entrance rest on now.

If you're a Therme customer, once you've gone through the entrance pavilion, you cross to the West Island inside that second level of the bridge, below left. If you're enjoying the free public grounds, no climate controlled crossing for you, you're on the bridge's exterior deck (and why would you want to be inside on beautiful day anyway?).

That is a crazy big sailboat. Anyway, below, that's the view from the world's tallest pennyfarthing on the Martin Goodman trail, or maybe your drone.

And finally…

nope, I'm done.

42

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

The government is also talking with the Ontario Science Centre about creating "science-related tourism and educational programming at the Cinesphere and pod complex,"

That bit intrigues and pleases me.

Or scares me...depending how this will pan out.

 

[interchange42]

I can see expanding the Budwisers venue for years round us being successful long term. The outdoor playground will have to reinvent itself every few years to stay profitable. I don't see this kind of spa complex working here. My guess it would fail to turn a profit and go under within a decade of opening.

Their location in Bucharest has become Romania's biggest tourist attraction, so, lots of Romanians and other visitors say "not so fast, mister".

42

 

[SubHuman]

... Accessible if you use a car. Not so much if you use public transit. They have to fix that, without transferring from the streetcars.
Don't like safariing across the parking lots to and Ontario Place, from and to the streetcars.

From link.

And the proposed rebuilt amphitheatre would have up to 20,000 people (instead of 15,000 at present) making the trek, or 9,000 in the winter. As I said before, rebuilding a new indoor/outdoor venue at the same location seems like an unrealistic concept. They didn't even bother to produce another rendering to show the winter version of the rebuilt amphitheatre with the supposed mechanized walls closed. It all might be just a bluff for the next year or so, until the other Exhibition Place entertainment venue proposal goes away, and Live Nation could then decide a new venue closer to the Exhibition GO/TTC station would make more sense.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

Those renderings are very pretty, Mr. 42. Like those fancy ones for that Orbit thingy in Innisfil...

...but I can't help think this would have been a more visionary and inclusive revitalization under a better government. It all feels gimmicky and missed opportunities that will leave Ontario Place boarded up and bankrupt again, IMO.

 

[kotsy]

Not to mention that given how secluded the area is. One can only imagine was seediness would take place in a park that close to the lake with no supervision. I (and I imagine many others) would not go there past sunset if it was a park and only a park.

Actually, recently they started closing access to OP & Trillium Park from 11pm-6am. It's actually been a thorn in my side as I try to get into there to take sunrise photos

 

[Irishmonk]

I've thought for years that the western island would make a great location for a First Nations history museum--and some kind of memorial/monument as well. It could incorporate some of those pretty glass domes posted upthread but they would be used to house recreations of local old growth forests, indigenous communities and what have you. The overall theme or spirit of the place would be In keeping with the original mission of 1970s Ontario educationment, but switched out with what existed beforehand. Kind of a Pre-Ontario Place, if you will.

Frankly, It's high time we properly acknowledged the people whose land we currently occupy.

 

[Northern Light]

Their location in Bucharest has become Romania's biggest tourist attraction, so, lots of Romanians and other visitors say "not so fast, mister".

42

Hmmm.

At first blush, the most recent stats I can are from 2018.

They put Toronto at the #53 most visited City by international visitors in the world.

Bucharest was #81; 2 full years after the Therme facility opened.

It's only been open since 2016.

That list is from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_international_visitors

*****

I will note, lists vary widely, as you can see in the above linked page comparing Euromonitor vs Mastercard

So I wouldn't take these as absolute truths, but as a guide.

It would be interesting to see what this list looked like before Therme opened...........hmmm

***

I used 'The Way Back Machine'.........and the first catalogued version of this page is from 2018 with 2017 data.

Bucharest was actually #81 that year, and Toronto was #50, so both fell.

 

[officedweller]

Yeah, there's no mention of what occupies the level under the amphitheatre.
The "indoor/outdoor" aspect of the venue is provided by retractable walls, not 2 facilities.

... my guess is a casino.

And I'm not sure how many people will pay to visit the spa side of the complex, even in winter.

Okay, dinnered. Some slightly closer-up pics and their wider shots:

I see why @Johnny Au thought we were getting two venues here; that's quite the two lower sections, seems like more space than necessary for back-of-house. I have crawled around the BOH at the Budweiser stage, and yes, there is lots of dressing room space, management offices, equipment staging area, etc. Whatever they are planning here would be far in excess of what they have now if those other areas at ground level (and you can see it in back as well) are not public spaces.

 

[Northern Light]

Yeah, there's no mention of what occupies the level under the amphitheatre.
The "indoor/outdoor" aspect of the venue is provided by retractable walls, not 2 facilities.

... my guess is a casino.

And I'm not sure how many people will pay to visit the spa side of the complex, even in winter.

I would think a casino is rather unlikely.

But otherwise agree.

 

[Automation Gallery]

I'm surprise they don't have an area/space dedicated to Cirque du Soleil

 

[thaivic]

Your flippant attitude towards the environment is consistent w/your pro-highway and pro-sprawl views.
It's not a couple of trees. It is, quite literally, with no exaggeration well over 250 mature trees, you can compare the renders and footprints and then look at the aerial photos.
Accuracy is a thing to which you do not adhere as often as you ought.



You could, actually, but it would not be my suggestion to do that with the entire site.



While I support the space including an entertainment function I disagreed with the characterization 'have to'.



The outdoor theme park was a central feature of Ontario Place; an indoor theme park never was........
Wonderland pulled demand away because it was something Ontario Place never could be; because the CNE got no investment in its permanent rides either, and because said permanent rides (ie. The Flyer etc.) were closed all year except during the 3-week CNE.

Let Wonderland be Wonderland.
Let people who want to spent time at indoor-amusement parks leave Toronto and go to places that appreciate tacky, like, Edmonton or something.



Great Wolf Lodge on steroids is not creative.



So is an 800-store mall and a 2-storey indoor driving range..............somehow I don't feel the loss.



The list of potential options is un-ending.

Many here, myself included liked the idea of moving the Ontario Science Centre down to to the Pods and possibly adding on to the complex for that purpose as well.
Much better location that it has today.
While we're relocating things...........Toronto Botanical Garden could shift here, for all the effort put into plans at the existing site, its very constrained. A mixture of 'natural' areas and formal gardens could occupy a large portion of the site.
A full-sized beach makes enormous sense.
So does optimizing passive recreation (paddle boats, row boats, canoes, kayaks, wind-surfing, picnics, walking and cycling space etc.
There's certainly room to retain a concert space, maybe even 2.
I have no objection whatever to restaurants and nightclubs occupying those zones at OP that were intended for same, updated for today's market.
If we were to see any 'theme park' functions, I'd rather go after the original ideas with an outdoor waterpark, simply one that was modern and up-to-date, and that could be a paid area.
A destination, adventure playground for kids works too.
There are myriad further options.

A lot of good ideas but who would fund it? The City and the Province are a bit tight on the cash side, the Liberals shuttered Ontario Place because the yearly expenses were high just to maintain it.

 

[allabootmatt]

The way the MGT wends around the buildings looks *a lot* like Marina Bay Sands and Gardens by the Bay in Singapore. Which isn't the worst thing; the path there is an excellent and well-used public amenity, and rather generously proportioned.

But hard not to feel this is a massive missed opportunity, relative to the potential and history of the site.