Toronto Ontario Place | ?m | ?s | Infrastructure ON

[picard102]

But there's enough objective demerits with the current proposal to warrant more scrutiny and consideration than the Province appears to be giving it.

In your opinion.

Yeah, let's not forget - "It's better than nothing," is about the level of argument we usually get from this fellow.
The rest of us should feel confident that in our own lives we set the bar higher than "it's better than nothing" and "well, it's all subjective," as if nothing has any inherent or discernible value.

Nothing says confidence more than personal barbs when you aren't getting your way.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

In your opinion.

As stated above, number of trees, distance to subway etc are entirely objective. If you are trying to say it's SUBJECTIVE for me to say I think they are sufficient to warrant "more scrutiny" and consideration, " you are earning any perceived scoffs or barbs that come your way.

Your whole thing here is that this is all just good enough and we shouldn't waste time challenging it. You're wholly entitled to this opinion but it's not one worth lending much weight to.

Nothing says confidence more than personal barbs when you aren't getting your way.

If me saying" better than nothing isn't good enough for me and is a low standard for a project of this magnitude," feels like a personal barb to you, I'll keep a eye on my confidence levels and I'm sorry but that seems like more of a You Problem.

 

[picard102]

As stated above, number of trees, distance to subway etc are entirely objective. If you are trying to say it's SUBJECTIVE for me to say I think they are sufficient to warrant "more scrutiny" and consideration, " you are earning any perceived scoffs or barbs that come your way.

Likewise thinking that the number of trees lost or distance to transit is not a subjective factor when planning a project is equally scoffable. You may think it's of higher value than location, Therme and the Government do not.

Your whole thing here is that this is all just good enough and we shouldn't waste time challenging it. You're wholly entitled to this opinion but it's not one worth lending much weight to.

My "whole thing" is that replacing an abandoned theme park with another is entirely appropriate. That people have nostalgia for OP, or think it should be a park, is not enough of a reason to not revitalize the site with something equally as useful as OP was before it was abandoned.

I'll keep a eye on my confidence levels

That would be best.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

Think we should curb this discussion for now. From an unbiased, nonpartisan perspective there have been some valuable arguments for both sides. However it’s gone on quite a while and it’s become much more speculative than evidence based. I think it would be best if we waited for some further news to be discussed on the topic; maybe Therme or the province will have a response to the mayor’s suggestions.
I appreciate everyone’s enthusiasm and passion!

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Likewise thinking that the number of trees lost or distance to transit is not a subjective factor when planning a project is equally scoffable. You may think it's of higher value than location, Therme and the Government do not.

You really have no idea, eh?

The Province put out an RFP for their land. Therme responded to it. There was literally no relative location/value consideration at any point. We here (and Olivia Chow, apparently) are suggesting other locations but that is, by definition, outside the process, notwithstanding you inferring it was somehow considered and rejected.

The discussion here about relative locations is fair game in the context of the mayor and others suggesting them, but they were never part of the planning or bidding process.

The number of trees being cut down remains objective. The distance to the subway is objective. If you want to say "I don't think it's that far from the subway," that is fair and subjective but if you are saying the Province somehow decided it doesn't matter, as it they they decided to cut down 850 trees whereas another location only require cutting 500 trees or as if they decided to reject a site closer to the Ontario Line, that is a factual error. Especially in the context of the spa needing additional parking to function.

That would be best.

Agree to agree! And update: my levels are currently high and holding steady.

 

[picard102]

You really have no idea, eh?

Yes, anyone who doesn't agree with you has no idea.

Feel free to spin your wheels going forward on your own.

 

[Natika33]

Referring more to the accessibility. The majority of visitors will approach on foot from north of the CNE. Of course, if you’re in the minority driving or biking along Lakeshore my point is missed.

Therme could build an equally sized, equally attractive facility in a much more accessible spot and with a lot less upheaval.

But then it wouldn't have a good view of the lake. The key selling feature for me (and I presume others) is that view. Take it away and it'll be no better than Go Spa in Markham albeit slightly cheaper.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

But then it wouldn't have a good view of the lake. The key selling feature for me (and I presume others) is that view. Take it away and it'll be no better than Go Spa in Markham albeit slightly cheaper.

Firstly, depending where and how you build on the Ex site, you can still see the lake. Moreover, Therme spas are (I gather) typically located in spaces much more like Markham or Whitby than Ontario Place. So water views are not crucial to their experience.

Those two things said, what many of us feel is that the design actually cuts off the public realm from the lake. Maybe some of that is subjective but if you're reducing the lake to a nice view out the window while you get a massage among the palm trees and waterslides, where there used to be a very purposely designed waterfront landscape, that "selling point" is severely compromised IMHO. Any proposal that reduces the lake to a "view" like a screensaver is precisely the sort of proposal that should not be given serious consideration.

The thing that has always made OP special isn't the flume ride or the Cinesphere or the old waterslides. It's how all of it, including the Zeidler buildings, the West Island and even the old Forum interfaced with the water. The idea that it would get replaced by a hermetically sealed, faux tropical environment that reduces the lake to a soothing view is precisely why many us believe it's not the right use for this site. YMMV, clearly.

 

[AlexBozikovic]

The thing that has always made OP special isn't the flume ride or the Cinesphere or the old waterslides. It's how all of it, including the Zeidler buildings, the West Island and even the old Forum interfaced with the water.

That’s it.

In other news, there is an RFP for tree removal on the east island and mainland.

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

Moreover, Therme spas are (I gather) typically located in spaces much more like Markham or Whitby than Ontario Place. So water views are not crucial to their experience.

The Bucharest location is 20km away from the city centre - out beyond the airport

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

So this is a done like dinner deal then. With 99 years on a wall while waiting on one to fall... /bleh

 

[reinventingthewheel]

So this is a done like dinner deal then. With 99 years on a wall while waiting on one to fall... /bleh

How do you figure? Is there a news item you could link to confirm this?

 

[EnviroTO]

What the thought should be around the spa location. Ontario Place is public space which needs to be invested in, not given away. There are many derelict or underutilized lands that benefit from the spa bringing development to underutilized lands that have the potential to give equally great views for floors above the tree canopy in some cases, and some from ground level if located along the dockwall.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

The Bucharest location is 20km away from the city centre - out beyond the airport
View attachment 510750

I guess that is one location @Natika33 will not be visiting! If you can't see a lake out the window, what's the selling point of this??
Might as well be in Orangeville.

Or this?

At least this one has a fake, little stormwater pond! So to be fair, despite some us bashing them, saying there's no reason for them to locate the spa at Ontario Place, sometimes Therme spas are indeed on the "waterfront."

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

How do you figure? Is there a news item you could link to confirm this?

...I think it's called reading the room. Doesn't mean that I am right about that. And hopefully not.

And also, Mr. Bozikovic's tree removal news over from the previous page would be closest thing to a confirmation.