Toronto Ontario Place | ?m | ?s | Infrastructure ON

[innsertnamehere]

this area has no lack of greenspace. It probably has more access to parkland than any other area in the wider downtown.

A reminder as well that there is not a single residential dwelling within walking distance of the planned Therme site. The closest dwellings, located ~850 metres to the northwest along Springhurst Avenue, would be about a 15 minute walk from the Therme front entrance, and that's literally a handful of rowhouses which have been there for 100+ years. Major growth sites in the west end of Downtown are all 20+ minute walks away.

Ultimately there is a ton of waterfront parkland in this area, including in areas much closer to where people live, and including in Ontario Place itself.

this site may seem close to downtown, but it's really not. The only easy way to access it is via cycling and / or driving. The existing Ontario Place Park, while relatively well patronized, is not exactly bustling, and it's and additional 800 metres closer to downown.

Therme may or may not be the best solution here, but I really don't think a public park covering the entire island is necessary either.

 

[generalcanada]

this area has no lack of greenspace. It probably has more access to parkland than any other area in the wider downtown.

A reminder as well that there is not a single residential dwelling within walking distance of the planned Therme site. The closest dwellings, located ~850 metres to the northwest along Springhurst Avenue, would be about a 15 minute walk from the Therme front entrance, and that's literally a handful of rowhouses which have been there for 100+ years. Major growth sites in the west end of Downtown are all 20+ minute walks away.

Ultimately there is a ton of waterfront parkland in this area, including in areas much closer to where people live, and including in Ontario Place itself.

this site may seem close to downtown, but it's really not. The only easy way to access it is via cycling and / or driving. The existing Ontario Place Park, while relatively well patronized, is not exactly bustling, and it's and additional 800 metres closer to downown.

Therme may or may not be the best solution here, but I really don't think a public park covering the entire island is necessary either.

i would like to point out that people saying its currently a park is very misleading.
I wouldnt call the abandoned log flume ride nor the concrete builds an existing park.

I will add that the trillium park isnt being touched at all.

 

[cereal]

this site may seem close to downtown, but it's really not. The only easy way to access it is via cycling and / or driving. The existing Ontario Place Park, while relatively well patronized, is not exactly bustling, and it's and additional 800 metres closer to downown.

This makes me believe you've never been down there before. The entire waterfront area around there- trillium park, ontario place, martin goodman trail, etc... are all buzzing with people every single day. Even during the winter on sunny days, there are masses of people down at trillium park/ontario place. Lot's of family/strollers, runners, walkers, cyclists and the the parking lots are basically empty, so they aren't driving there.

A reminder as well that there is not a single residential dwelling within walking distance of the planned Therme site. The closest dwellings, located ~850 metres to the northwest along Springhurst Avenue, would be about a 15 minute walk from the Therme front entrance, and that's literally a handful of rowhouses which have been there for 100+ years. Major growth sites in the west end of Downtown are all 20+ minute walks away.

Close to "literally only a handful of rowhouses"...why are you trying to mislead folks like that? The west island is an easy 10-15min walking distance from southeast Parkdale, liberty village and fort york, which are some of the highest density and fastest growing neighborhoods in Toronto. We are talking 50k+ population and climbing.

 

[innsertnamehere]

This makes me believe you've never been down there before. The entire waterfront area around there- trillium park, ontario place, martin goodman trail, etc... are all buzzing with people every single day. Even during the winter on sunny days, there are masses of people down at trillium park/ontario place. Lot's of family/strollers, runners, walkers, cyclists and the the parking lots are basically empty, so they aren't driving there.


Close to "literally only a handful of rowhouses"...why are you trying to mislead folks like that? The west island is an easy 10-15min walking distance from southeast Parkdale, liberty village and fort york, which are some of the highest density and fastest growing neighborhoods in Toronto. We are talking 50k+ population and climbing.

I didn't say they were empty did I? There are definitely people around, particularly along the Martin Goodman Trail, but Trillium park has been relatively quiet every time I have been there. Again, not empty. Just not busy. My point is that this stretch of the waterfront does not strike me as one desperate for some more park space - there is already a huge amount of parkland around that while generally well utilized, seem far from overused.

The closest apartment building in Fort York, again, the closest, is about a 19 minute walk. From Liberty Village, the closest large apartment building would be a 16 minute walk, but most liberty village apartments are more like 19 minutes. The very closest apartment building I was originally referencing is 12 minutes away. All of these areas, even the closest residential dwelling, fall outside of the 800 metre, 10-minute radius which is generally used to define if something is within walking distance.

All of these walks involve convoluted routes across major arterial roads and through railroad underpasses and parking lots, as well, and only include walk times to the front entrance of Therme. Add a few extra minutes walk time to each to actually get onto the island itself.

West island is not particularly close to any residents. It's close enough that some people may wander down on a sunday afternoon if looking for a nice long stroll, but generally most people accessing it, just like Trillium Park, will by cycling, driving, or using some form of transportation to access it. And that limits how useful it is by a pretty significant margin. The proposed public access route along the west island waterfront will preserve 80-90% of the parks utility for most users, cyclists and runners looking to run / cycle along the lake.

 

[Natika33]

I didn't say they were empty did I? There are definitely people around, particularly along the Martin Goodman Trail, but Trillium park has been relatively quiet every time I have been there. Again, not empty. Just not busy. My point is that this stretch of the waterfront does not strike me as one desperate for some more park space - there is already a huge amount of parkland around that while generally well utilized, seem far from overused.

The closest apartment building in Fort York, again, the closest, is about a 19 minute walk. From Liberty Village, the closest large apartment building would be a 16 minute walk, but most liberty village apartments are more like 19 minutes. The very closest apartment building I was originally referencing is 12 minutes away. All of these areas, even the closest residential dwelling, fall outside of the 800 metre, 10-minute radius which is generally used to define if something is within walking distance.

All of these walks involve convoluted routes across major arterial roads and through railroad underpasses and parking lots, as well, and only include walk times to the front entrance of Therme. Add a few extra minutes walk time to each to actually get onto the island itself.

West island is not particularly close to any residents. It's close enough that some people may wander down on a sunday afternoon if looking for a nice long stroll, but generally most people accessing it, just like Trillium Park, will by cycling, driving, or using some form of transportation to access it. And that limits how useful it is by a pretty significant margin. The proposed public access route along the west island waterfront will preserve 80-90% of the parks utility for most users, cyclists and runners looking to run / cycle along the lake.

I agree, and moreover, Ontario Place is not just meant for the people of Toronto. How does a simple green space in Toronto appeal to someone from Windsor or London or Cobourg, etc? Is not Ontario Place for them too? Even if a non-Torontonian were into urban green spaces, High Park is larger than the west island by roughly 3 times and includes a little zoo and a play ground that looks like a castle. Meanwhile, the pods at OP are empty, there aren't any restaurants there anymore... I'm totally flabbergasted there's so much opposition to this.

 

[kotsy]

I live in Parkdale and can bike over to Ontario Place in about 3 minutes. Going for a walk around the grounds and taking in the sunset from the West Island is something I find myself doing more days than not during the summer.

Also, incorporating OP into my only running route along the waterfront is one of my favourite parts of the run. I won't consider staying within the city area for runs or bike rides and I can't imagine anyone living south of King St would do the same.

 

[mistersg1]

That’s right, this is Ontario Place, but it seems like to many, it’s now Liberty Village Place, or CityPlace Place.

The project is called a spa, but isn’t it somewhat of an indoor water park as well? (something I thought would work better than a rehash of the old Ontario Place water park)

An indoor water park has the added bonus that it can be used throughout the year and not leave the place abandoned through most of the year.


As for the pods, it would be awesome if we could get some of the tenants back in the pods that Ontario Place had in the 1990s. But I won’t hold my breath, this gives the option for Ontario Place to be a destination, and let’s be honest it practically is, it’s kind of isolated, you need to go out of your way to access it.

 

[generalcanada]

I live in Parkdale and can bike over to Ontario Place in about 3 minutes. Going for a walk around the grounds and taking in the sunset from the West Island is something I find myself doing more days than not during the summer.

Also, incorporating OP into my only running route along the waterfront is one of my favourite parts of the run. I won't consider staying within the city area for runs or bike rides and I can't imagine anyone living south of King St would do the same.

why are people acting as if trillium park, and the trail will be taken over by the attraction?
Its not only not being touched, but its being improved. Like look at that beach that were going to get.

 

[Northern Light]

this area has no lack of greenspace. It probably has more access to parkland than any other area in the wider downtown.

There are moments you really wander off from logic in your arguments, this is one.

The standard for parkland in Toronto is 28m2 per person..

Downtown Toronto is at 8.7m2.

That means if downtown didn't add one more person to its current population, the area is parkland deficient by 500ha or 1,250 acres

Given that downtown's population is projected to double, that would make it deficient by more than 1,000ha or 2,500 acres.

***

No, I do not expect downtown to ever reach the City's optimal parkland standard per resident. However, saying 'this area over here has more parkland than downtown' as if that somehow makes the total adequate leaves me lost on how you can put forward that argument with a straight face.

A reminder as well that there is not a single residential dwelling within walking distance of the planned Therme site. The closest dwellings, located ~850 metres to the northwest along Springhurst Avenue, would be about a 15 minute walk from the Therme front entrance, and that's literally a handful of rowhouses which have been there for 100+ years. Major growth sites in the west end of Downtown are all 20+ minute walks away.

Regional parks, such as High Park or Etobicoke Centennial are expected to draw from a large cachement area, including those who would take transit to visit said park. It isn't merely a site to serve a local constituency.

That said, tell me about all the other sites over 10ha in size, within 15M walking distance of major population nodes that we could add to the park system. I'm rather sure, outside of those planned for the Portlands, there are none.

The only other large site near downtown is the Island Airport, which has the same access issues you just identified except worse.

Ultimately there is a ton of waterfront parkland in this area, including in areas much closer to where people live, and including in Ontario Place itself.

Ultimately this simply isn't true.

Therme may or may not be the best solution here, but I really don't think a public park covering the entire island is necessary either.

I don't think anyone has actually advocated 100% parkland (in the sense of entirely passive/free). Most people want to see the Pods and Cinesphere retained and expect that would be in the form of a paid admission attraction; most also would like to see the return of some restaurants/concession vendors, largely, where they were once located.

There is, I think, room to discuss a number of add-ons both free and paid.

Free would be a dramatically enhanced public beach.

Paid, would be canoe/kayak rental, Perhaps a Zip Line somewhere, or maybe a modest sized but refreshed set of water-rides (waterslides, bumper boats or even the flume ride).

What most of us want, other than nixing Therme is to preserve public access to the grounds for free, to preserve the iconic architectural elements, to preserve as many mature trees as is practical (no one is saying all of them, and to give every Torontonian a large, signature, public waterfront space, that is broadly free to visit, with paid add-ons for those who wish.

 

[kotsy]

why are people acting as if trillium park, and the trail will be taken over by the attraction?
Its not only not being touched, but its being improved. Like look at that beach that were going to get.

We could be getting A LOT more if all the money going towards the underground parking was going to renovating the entire West Island into public green space.

Also, my comment was in response to insertnamehere implying that OP is too far for most people to use as their main park

 

[Natika33]

That’s right, this is Ontario Place, but it seems like to many, it’s now Liberty Village Place, or CityPlace Place.

The project is called a spa, but isn’t it somewhat of an indoor water park as well? (something I thought would work better than a rehash of the old Ontario Place water park)

An indoor water park has the added bonus that it can be used throughout the year and not leave the place abandoned through most of the year.


As for the pods, it would be awesome if we could get some of the tenants back in the pods that Ontario Place had in the 1990s. But I won’t hold my breath, this gives the option for Ontario Place to be a destination, and let’s be honest it practically is, it’s kind of isolated, you need to go out of your way to access it.

Yes, on the Diamond & Schmitt pages they talk of it being inspired by the trillium with each petal different - one a water park, one a "wellness centre" (aka spa) and one a botanical garden.

 

[generalcanada]

We could be getting A LOT more if all the money going towards the underground parking was going to renovating the entire West Island into public green space.

Also, my comment was in response to insertnamehere implying that OP is too far for most people to use as their main park

Thats a non-starter, Ontario place was an attraction before and it will be again. It will not and shouldnt be a park

 

[Northern Light]

Thats a non-starter, Ontario place was an attraction before and it will be again. It will not and shouldnt be a park

Please note that you have incorrectly added a definitive qualifier in the above conflating your opinion/preference with a fact.

You are entitled to your preference, but it is not a fact.

 

[generalcanada]

Please note that you have incorrectly added a definitive qualifier in the above conflating your opinion/preference with a fact.

You are entitled to your preference, but it is not a fact.

It is both a fact and an opinion

FACT: ontario place was a very sucessful and loved attraction until it closed

FACT: Doug ford will skip over all city interference to get this built

Opinion: this redevelopment will be a better attraction than Ontario Place years ago

Opinion: Its a good thing doug ford will be skipping those nimby approvals. Tell me the difference between "put the waterpark somewhere else" and "put that subway entrance somewhere else"

 

[Northern Light]

It is both a fact and an opinion

FACT: ontario place was a very sucessful and loved attraction until it closed

Ontario Place closed due to ever declining attendance and an unwillingness by the then Liberal gov't to invest in both refreshing assets and adding anything new/different of substance or a major marketing push.

FACT: Doug ford will skip over all city interference to get this built

He is certainly capable of that, but whether he chooses to do so is conjecture at this point.