adys123
Active Member
Yes exactly, so for OL, when they advertise 90 second headways (that is operational headways) i.e., the trains will actually be able to come every 90 seconds.
Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
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generalcanada
Senior Member
That future expansion is heavily counted into the project
officedweller
Senior Member
Another factor is the number and length of the walk-through trains.
Honolulu changed their mind and bought 4-car trains, not 2-car trains, without thinking of the operational flexibility of the 2-car trains. That's why TransLink in Vancouver stuck with 2-car trains and took a long time to buy the 4-car trains (and now 5-car trains).
2-car trains don't allow people to walk through if configured into a 4-car train (2x2-car), but allows you to scale the size of the train to the demand (and reduce power consumption).
It also allows you to have more trains (albeit shorter) to increase frequency / reduce the waiting time.
However, for Ontario Line, the platform screen doors would prevent them from combining short trains because they need consistent spacing between doors (the nose to tail coupling would add distance).
Honolulu changed their mind and bought 4-car trains, not 2-car trains, without thinking of the operational flexibility of the 2-car trains. That's why TransLink in Vancouver stuck with 2-car trains and took a long time to buy the 4-car trains (and now 5-car trains).
2-car trains don't allow people to walk through if configured into a 4-car train (2x2-car), but allows you to scale the size of the train to the demand (and reduce power consumption).
It also allows you to have more trains (albeit shorter) to increase frequency / reduce the waiting time.
However, for Ontario Line, the platform screen doors would prevent them from combining short trains because they need consistent spacing between doors (the nose to tail coupling would add distance).
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smallspy
Senior Member
There is no doubt that the system is going to be designed for it. The EA documents have certainly looked the part, especially the MSF. Metrolinx's public-facing marketing wank (sorry, presentations) have indicated as much.
But as we have seen with other projects, the EA documents do not necessary describe the actual built configuration of the line. The MSF may only get built to a configuration two-thirds of the final form if there is no need to do so in the immediate future. That means that any future improvements in service would require an expansion of the MSF first.
I'm not confident that this contract alone will be enough to get Hitachi to set up a facility here, but I would welcome being wrong on it.
Dan
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tkamb
New Member
There are lots of scepticism about winter operations, Metrolinx is defending it. Would be interesting to know how the contact word the on-time performance (if any)…
With a all steel-wheel system and lots of slope, during snow time, almost unavoidably they need increase the headway and reduce speed for the extra safety margin to account for lower fiction. For example, Taipei system would reduce speed and headway in windy and rainy conditions.
Honolulu might able to achieve 60s with zero problem…If Toronto system achieve 100% on-time with 60s in summer but 50% on-time in winter. Would we still consider it as a good system?
T3G
Senior Member
Well, this won't be happening.
smallspy
Senior Member
It's not really a problem with the current subway system, and it sees similar grades to what the Ontario Line will operate on. Insofar as the systems will be similar (steel wheels on steel rails, frequent service, many/most axles powered), I don't see why it would operate any differently in snow.
Honolulu does not operate on a 60 second headway. No rapid transit system in the world does.
Dan
adys123
Active Member
EA documents look generally at the broader evaluation of environmental impacts, one feature of the TPAP is that you do not need to evaluate alternatives. Yes, you are correct in saying that the EA could encompass the full build, whereas the actual build could be phased.
The size of facility that would be setup here is unlikely to be a full facility, but could allow for a presence here in the future. There is some language that could imply that, so I'm cautiously optimistic.
Winter in Toronto is fairly inevitable, it's probably one of the biggest concerns when operating in such an environment. The Consortium does have experience operating in similar climatic conditions and maintenance and operational practices are part of the contract.
allengeorge
Senior Member
Given climate change, I suspect that Toronto winters with deep chills and lots of snow will increasingly become a rarity. I am curious how well all this new infrastructure is future-proofed for extreme weather events (mostly flooding).
chrisw
Active Member
Whilewinters can be harsh, our trains are proven to be up to the task. @HitachiRailENG has been battle-testing trains in the most extreme weather conditions & their winterization testing techniques have proven suitable for Norwegian & Swedish winters. Toronto? Bring it on!
NoahB
Active Member
Lille Metro says hello with its 66-second rush hour frequency. The system can handle 60s but the operator found 66s to be optimal when accounting for boarding and PSDs.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Good thing Metrolinx isn't aiming for 60s frequencies.
90s frequencies are a very different beast than 60s.
smallspy
Senior Member
Last I checked, 66 seconds is more than 60.
But nonetheless, I'm impressed that they managed to pull it off such a tight headway for so long. Kudos to them.
Dan
MovingBlock
New Member
Worth remembering that the Lille Metro is rubber-tyred, so braking distances are much shorter vs. adhesion rail. Acceleration is also very high (1.3 m/s^2 for a VAL 208). The trains are also very short (26m, which is shorter than a TTC Flexity Outlook), so they don't spend as much time occupying switch areas on the route.
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T3G
Senior Member
It also strikes me that this is one of those things where just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
At such tight headways, the faintest whiff of a delay, a passenger holding the doors, a mechanical problem, will send delays cascading down the line.
At such tight headways, the faintest whiff of a delay, a passenger holding the doors, a mechanical problem, will send delays cascading down the line.