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spmarshall
Guest
Re: ...
Yes
Yes
A
Admiral Beez
Guest
Re: ...
Are there plans in the works to knock down Moss Park, or at least sell part of it off at market value, thus helping to mix-up the income/social populations?
Perhaps they'll want to see how successful Regent Park is.
Are there plans in the works to knock down Moss Park, or at least sell part of it off at market value, thus helping to mix-up the income/social populations?
Perhaps they'll want to see how successful Regent Park is.
M
mark simpson
Guest
Re: ...
^pretty sure there recently was a plan to densify the parking lots with new market and subsidized housing but it was shot down
^pretty sure there recently was a plan to densify the parking lots with new market and subsidized housing but it was shot down
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AlvinofDiaspar
Guest
Re: ...
The only scheme I am aware of (and there could very well have been others) is a scheme in the late 80s (early 90s?) to densify the site with at least one additonal midrise and townhomes. The only phase that got completed was renovation of the existing buildings.
AoD
The only scheme I am aware of (and there could very well have been others) is a scheme in the late 80s (early 90s?) to densify the site with at least one additonal midrise and townhomes. The only phase that got completed was renovation of the existing buildings.
AoD
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Admiral Beez
Guest
Re: ...
I'd like to have some way of getting rid of much of the need for public housing in the city, especially the pan-generational housing, wherein someone immigrates to Canada from wherever, and ends up in Regent Park, and then their kids live there, and then their grandkids live there, etc.... Of course not all folks in public housing are immigrants, but from what I see in Regent Park, a lot are.
As an immigrant myself, I think I could support an immigration policy that attracts and accepts candidates that are likely not going to need long-term public housing, such as those with money of their own to start with, and/or those with skills/education that we both want and recognize (i.e. one of my biggest pet peaves is how Canada brings in engineers from India and only when they arrive they realize that their skills and education are not accepted or wanted - if this is the case, tell them before they come, or put in the systems to fast track the skills recognition BEFORE they come).
Getting back to housing, if a new immigrant will require housing assistance, and we still want them as immigrants or refugees, then they should receive a housing allowance or benefit from the government for a short to medium term only (1-3 years) to get themselves on their feet. This allowance should be sufficent to help the new family afford rent in the open market, as opposed to pushing them into ghettos. I'd gladly fund such a housing support plan for new immigrants through my taxes, provided it was part of the Federal Government's immigration plan, not just another downloaded service for the city to provide.
Again, this will only move immigrants out of public housing into better, more mainstream housing, so citizens in such public housing will still be an issue to address.
I'd like to have some way of getting rid of much of the need for public housing in the city, especially the pan-generational housing, wherein someone immigrates to Canada from wherever, and ends up in Regent Park, and then their kids live there, and then their grandkids live there, etc.... Of course not all folks in public housing are immigrants, but from what I see in Regent Park, a lot are.
As an immigrant myself, I think I could support an immigration policy that attracts and accepts candidates that are likely not going to need long-term public housing, such as those with money of their own to start with, and/or those with skills/education that we both want and recognize (i.e. one of my biggest pet peaves is how Canada brings in engineers from India and only when they arrive they realize that their skills and education are not accepted or wanted - if this is the case, tell them before they come, or put in the systems to fast track the skills recognition BEFORE they come).
Getting back to housing, if a new immigrant will require housing assistance, and we still want them as immigrants or refugees, then they should receive a housing allowance or benefit from the government for a short to medium term only (1-3 years) to get themselves on their feet. This allowance should be sufficent to help the new family afford rent in the open market, as opposed to pushing them into ghettos. I'd gladly fund such a housing support plan for new immigrants through my taxes, provided it was part of the Federal Government's immigration plan, not just another downloaded service for the city to provide.
Again, this will only move immigrants out of public housing into better, more mainstream housing, so citizens in such public housing will still be an issue to address.
3
3Dementia
Guest
Re: ...
^^ but what is mainstream housing? Is it like 'streaming' that sends thousands into the void? Are you talking about a Welcome Wagon Tower?
Not trying to be a prick, btw... curious. Not sure you can "build" such a thing.
^^ but what is mainstream housing? Is it like 'streaming' that sends thousands into the void? Are you talking about a Welcome Wagon Tower?
Not trying to be a prick, btw... curious. Not sure you can "build" such a thing.
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Admiral Beez
Guest
Re: Regent Park and Don Mount
Obviously, I am not against helping our newcomers with housing. It wouldn't be very welcoming to bring them here and then not give them some direction and help in finding housing. What I am against is public housing complexes or ghettos and I'm against pan-generational public housing, where it becomes apparent that a family and its descendants are never going to leave public housing.
I mean regular market value apartments and houses that we all either rent or own. A temporary housing subsidy could be installed to cover the bridge between the market value of the rent and the family's income.
Obviously, I am not against helping our newcomers with housing. It wouldn't be very welcoming to bring them here and then not give them some direction and help in finding housing. What I am against is public housing complexes or ghettos and I'm against pan-generational public housing, where it becomes apparent that a family and its descendants are never going to leave public housing.
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EnviroTO
Guest
Re: Regent Park and Don Mount
You can't get rid of public housing unless the units are empty. Public housing needs to be housing for whoever needs it period. Dumping people onto the street simply because a time limit has elapsed makes little sense because you end up with beggars on the streets and people in dire circumstances which leads to increased crime. Dealing with getting people better jobs, education, etc needs to be dealt with separately from housing. Everyone should have a roof over their head and some private space to keep a few belongings without exception.
The only improvements I would make to public housing is to spread it out across the city more evenly with no tall buildings entirely filled with only public housing, and size public housing units more strategically based on target occupants so that able bodied people are motivated to get out due to small one room living quarters but handicapped individuals get a more usable amount of space. Families should also get some additional space per occupant but the apartment should still be very basic. The welfare and housing system is a little screwed up in the way a little work leads to clawbacks of benefits to the point that if a person takes some part time low income level work or volunteers they may end up further behind. More paid work should always lead to more money in the pocket (even if only 50c on the dollar) and volunteering should have no negative consequences on welfare or housing. When someone working full time rents and apartment they should be able to afford better accomodations than the able bodied person in public housing in the same neighbourhood who is not working at all.
You can't get rid of public housing unless the units are empty. Public housing needs to be housing for whoever needs it period. Dumping people onto the street simply because a time limit has elapsed makes little sense because you end up with beggars on the streets and people in dire circumstances which leads to increased crime. Dealing with getting people better jobs, education, etc needs to be dealt with separately from housing. Everyone should have a roof over their head and some private space to keep a few belongings without exception.
The only improvements I would make to public housing is to spread it out across the city more evenly with no tall buildings entirely filled with only public housing, and size public housing units more strategically based on target occupants so that able bodied people are motivated to get out due to small one room living quarters but handicapped individuals get a more usable amount of space. Families should also get some additional space per occupant but the apartment should still be very basic. The welfare and housing system is a little screwed up in the way a little work leads to clawbacks of benefits to the point that if a person takes some part time low income level work or volunteers they may end up further behind. More paid work should always lead to more money in the pocket (even if only 50c on the dollar) and volunteering should have no negative consequences on welfare or housing. When someone working full time rents and apartment they should be able to afford better accomodations than the able bodied person in public housing in the same neighbourhood who is not working at all.
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Admiral Beez
Guest
Re: Regent Park and Don Mount
I'm not sure I agree on that, as a good program to welcome immigrants should encompass jobs, education AND housing. Again, this is only touching on immigrants, so we'll need something else to deal with citizens.
E
EnviroTO
Guest
Re: Regent Park and Don Mount
So what are you going to do with them after the time limit? "Sorry, you met all the criteria as a well educated and motivated individual but Canadian business required Canadian experience for hire and despite the fact you have been working on getting Canadian certifications, qualifications, or experience the time is up so we are sending you back from?" "Sorry to say but time is up and despite the fact you are a refugee it is back to the war torn countries you go?" The average Canadian gets free government paid education for 12 or 13 years before they get a job here. I think the government, after accepting a person to immigrate to Canada based on good academic qualifications, has the responsibility to make sure that those qualifications translate to employment opportunities, especially considering that they got a fully educated individual without paying a penny for their development up to the time they arrived. If anything, the country which paid for their development only to have them leave the country is getting the raw deal.
So what are you going to do with them after the time limit? "Sorry, you met all the criteria as a well educated and motivated individual but Canadian business required Canadian experience for hire and despite the fact you have been working on getting Canadian certifications, qualifications, or experience the time is up so we are sending you back from?" "Sorry to say but time is up and despite the fact you are a refugee it is back to the war torn countries you go?" The average Canadian gets free government paid education for 12 or 13 years before they get a job here. I think the government, after accepting a person to immigrate to Canada based on good academic qualifications, has the responsibility to make sure that those qualifications translate to employment opportunities, especially considering that they got a fully educated individual without paying a penny for their development up to the time they arrived. If anything, the country which paid for their development only to have them leave the country is getting the raw deal.
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DarnDirtyApe
Guest
Re: Regent Park and Don Mount
My street has a perfect example of how public housing should be done. It's a four-storey apartment building that blends in perfectly with everything else on the street. I only found out that it was TCHC while browsing it's website.
I'm concerned that these redevelopments will fail because they will still be dominated by public housing, and because of the stigma attached to the neighbourhoods. I'm glad that at least Regent Park will be rebuilt over many years, so that the buildings should look different enough that the whole concept of Regent Park as a neighbourhood distinct from the surrounding area will disapear.
My street has a perfect example of how public housing should be done. It's a four-storey apartment building that blends in perfectly with everything else on the street. I only found out that it was TCHC while browsing it's website.
I'm concerned that these redevelopments will fail because they will still be dominated by public housing, and because of the stigma attached to the neighbourhoods. I'm glad that at least Regent Park will be rebuilt over many years, so that the buildings should look different enough that the whole concept of Regent Park as a neighbourhood distinct from the surrounding area will disapear.
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Admiral Beez
Guest
Re: Regent Park and Don Mount
One of the best things about mixed income developments is that you'll get a greater police presence. The Toronto Police deploy resources based on 911 calls, which is why you see Police cars along Queen East in the Beach and rarely any in Regent Park, since middle class folks will call the police if they see someone spray paint a wall or steal a bike, while in the ghetto areas no one calls.
Regent Park will certainly be a social engineering experiment, which of course it was in the 1940s as well.
One of the best things about mixed income developments is that you'll get a greater police presence. The Toronto Police deploy resources based on 911 calls, which is why you see Police cars along Queen East in the Beach and rarely any in Regent Park, since middle class folks will call the police if they see someone spray paint a wall or steal a bike, while in the ghetto areas no one calls.
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bizorky
Guest
Re: Regent Park and Don Mount
I think this is a valid issue, but one that must be carefully separated from issues concerning education and employment.
Education and employment are a (potential) means to eventually allowing for the purchasing of property and to eventually enabling individuals to remove themselves from the cycle of poverty. Society can - and does - provide certain opportunities concerning access education and training, but it can't force people seek or to use these opportunities. Individual agency does play a key role in the persistence of poverty over generations.
People have to choose to get better jobs, education, and so on in order to acquire housing. And while everyone should have a roof over their head and some private space to keep a few belongings without exception, there has to be a clear sense of responsibility built into this right from the very start, otherwise poverty will be reduced to an excuse.
I think this is a valid issue, but one that must be carefully separated from issues concerning education and employment.
Education and employment are a (potential) means to eventually allowing for the purchasing of property and to eventually enabling individuals to remove themselves from the cycle of poverty. Society can - and does - provide certain opportunities concerning access education and training, but it can't force people seek or to use these opportunities. Individual agency does play a key role in the persistence of poverty over generations.
People have to choose to get better jobs, education, and so on in order to acquire housing. And while everyone should have a roof over their head and some private space to keep a few belongings without exception, there has to be a clear sense of responsibility built into this right from the very start, otherwise poverty will be reduced to an excuse.
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spmarshall
Guest
Re: Regent Park and Don Mount
Photo updates:
Regent Park - excavation is getting quite deep:
Photo updates:
Regent Park - excavation is getting quite deep:
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Admiral Beez
Guest
Re: Regent Park and Don Mount
The ideal immigrant to Canada are those that already have sufficient money to land on their feet, or jobs ready to accept them. For example, my Dad's firm in the UK transferred him to its Canadian office, thus without any need for public housing. My best friend's parents emigrated from China with sufficent money to start a business and buy a house in Markham, again with no drain on the public housing system.
Canadian businesses do not want foreign educated employees, which they're demonstrating by their refusal to recognize or value their overseas credentials and experience. What Canadian businesses want are more general and semi-skilled labourers to do jobs that POWP (plain old white people) in Canada no longer will do, such as drive taxis, take care of our eldery, raise our children, wait tables and cook at our restaurants, clean our houses, work in our factories and warehouses, strip at clubs (remember when strippers were from Montreal, now they're almost all from abroad - not that I'm an expert), clean our streets, dig our pools, etc. Public housing exists, at least in the case of immigrants, to house these folks, in the hope that their Canadian-born children will be tomorrow's engineers, doctors and scientists. This is the truth that our immigration teams overseas should be selling to potential newcomers, not that they can continue to be doctors or engineers when they arrive in Canada when in reality Canadian businesses do not want them for this, but in fact want them for the roles I describe above.
To answer your question above, I don't have an answer of what to do with the folks when the time limit's up. The alternatives are keep them in public housing indefinitely, or preferrably provide income assistance so that they can move to market value housing.
I think the trick is to bring folks here that private industry wants. If Canadian firms do not want new employees with engineering degrees from developing countries, then don't bring in those folks since it's only going to lead to their frustration and dissapointment, or at least tell those folks before they emigrate that their credentials will not be recognized.
The ideal immigrant to Canada are those that already have sufficient money to land on their feet, or jobs ready to accept them. For example, my Dad's firm in the UK transferred him to its Canadian office, thus without any need for public housing. My best friend's parents emigrated from China with sufficent money to start a business and buy a house in Markham, again with no drain on the public housing system.
Canadian businesses do not want foreign educated employees, which they're demonstrating by their refusal to recognize or value their overseas credentials and experience. What Canadian businesses want are more general and semi-skilled labourers to do jobs that POWP (plain old white people) in Canada no longer will do, such as drive taxis, take care of our eldery, raise our children, wait tables and cook at our restaurants, clean our houses, work in our factories and warehouses, strip at clubs (remember when strippers were from Montreal, now they're almost all from abroad - not that I'm an expert), clean our streets, dig our pools, etc. Public housing exists, at least in the case of immigrants, to house these folks, in the hope that their Canadian-born children will be tomorrow's engineers, doctors and scientists. This is the truth that our immigration teams overseas should be selling to potential newcomers, not that they can continue to be doctors or engineers when they arrive in Canada when in reality Canadian businesses do not want them for this, but in fact want them for the roles I describe above.
To answer your question above, I don't have an answer of what to do with the folks when the time limit's up. The alternatives are keep them in public housing indefinitely, or preferrably provide income assistance so that they can move to market value housing.