Toronto/Montreal comparisons (ain't pretty...)

[Thanos]

I hear what you're saying. I still think you can go to certain areas of Toronto and find predominantly whites there. I never said Montreal was more multi-cultural, Toronto takes that crown. I just think although Toronto tends to be multi-cultural, you see a good amount of segregation....so although you may see people on the subway together, there's really little to no interaction between them besides sharing public transit, work and that's about it. Just my observation.

As opposed to any other city on the planet?
Really, people think that in Paris they get on the bus and everyone is miggling with eachother even though they've never met.

Explain to me King East how is Toronto more segregated then Montreal. This comes as a surprise to me who has witnessed and been part of several racial insults especially in school and by teachers, we didn't get our gym teacher fired because he smelled funny.

And you really don't understand what i mean by the Philipino comment. Talk to a few of them next time you go there.

 

[TheKingEast]

As opposed to any other city on the planet?
Really, people think that in Paris they get on the bus and everyone is miggling with eachother even though they've never met.

Explain to me King East how is Toronto more segregated then Montreal. This comes as a surprise to me who has witnessed and been part of several racial insults especially in school and by teachers, we didn't get our gym teacher fired because he smelled funny.

And you really don't understand what i mean by the Philipino comment. Talk to a few of them next time you go there.

I don't feel like getting into this because really, how are my experiences and observations going to change your mind?

 

[junctionist]

And so do I....I grew up in Montreal and now live in Toronto. I have a lot of friends and family there and travel there frequently. It really depends what you're looking at. If you're looking at jobs, wealth, power, etc.. then Toronto wins.... Toronto's still a cold, lifeless city, in search of an identity with a huge inferiority complex, IMO....and that's more important to me.

Toronto's identity is the national metropolis--cultural, economic, cosmopolitan--and it's just a matter of more and more people realizing that. Any past inferiority complex among certain individuals will dissipate, but it doesn't even characterize the city of the past decades, especially when Jane Jacobs moved here and New York started to look like it was verging on Detroit. You're just judging the cities on intangible criteria and your "lifeless" comment is ludicrous. Those are just the stereotypical Montrealer comments, often annoyingly chauvinistic. Montrealers can keep repeating those stereotypes, but they're just going to seem provincial.

 

[TheKingEast]

Toronto's identity is the national metropolis--cultural, economic, cosmopolitan--and it's just a matter of more and more people realizing that. Any past inferiority complex among certain individuals will dissipate, but it doesn't even characterize the city of the past decades, especially when Jane Jacobs moved here and New York started to look like it was verging on Detroit. You're just judging the cities on intangible criteria and your "lifeless" comment is ludicrous. Those are just the stereotypical Montrealer comments, often annoyingly chauvinistic. Montrealers can keep repeating those stereotypes, but they're just going to seem provincial.

Of course...that's what makes a city great, IMO.

I'm not going by stereotypes, these are my observations. Disagree if you like, I really don't expect my opinion to be that popular on a board comprised of mostly Torontonians.

New York's on the verge of Detroit? Really? I must say, that's a pretty ridiculous comment.

 

[tkip]

Having lived in this city my entire life I have always felt that most people here were polite but not particularly warm. Toronto's people aren't the most approachable .

 

[Thanos]

New York's on the verge of Detroit? Really? I must say, that's a pretty ridiculous comment.

I'll assume you don't know the history. Jacobs moved to Toronto in the late 60s. In that period NYC was already declining. The 70s is regarded as the worst decade in NYC. High crime rate and corruption. The city was in decay and lost close to 1 million in population during that decade. So yes NYC was on the verge of Detroit in that period.
It wasn't until the early 90s that they picked up and now have one of the lowest crime rates and are regarded as one of the greatest cities. You know every city goes through a tough period at one point in their history.

Having lived in this city my entire life I have always felt that most people here were polite but not particularly warm. Toronto's people aren't the most approachable.".

Again, is this any different than anywhere else? I've had to deal with many unapproachable and approachable individuals in every city i've been.
It's just the way it is. Blame it on the overpopulation of the planet.

 

[TheKingEast]

I'll assume you don't know the history. Jacobs moved to Toronto in the late 60s. In that period NYC was already declining. The 70s is regarded as the worst decade in NYC. High crime rate and corruption. The city was in decay and lost close to 1 million in population during that decade. So yes NYC was on the verge of Detroit in that period.
It wasn't until the early 90s that they picked up and now have one of the lowest crime rates and are regarded as one of the greatest cities. You know every city goes through a tough period at one point in their history.

New York was never near what Detroit is now. Not even close.

 

[Thanos]

New York was never near what Detroit is now. Not even close.

Detroit of 2011 did not exist back then. However, it was on a decline from the 60s. In the 70s Detroit lost about 20% of its population, whereas NYC it was just over 10%.
I'm fairly positive Junctionist was referring to what Detroit was experiencing in the 60s and 70s. Which NYC was experiencing something very similar.

 

[old boy]

Toronto's identity is the national metropolis--cultural, economic, cosmopolitan--and it's just a matter of more and more people realizing that. Any past inferiority complex among certain individuals will dissipate, but it doesn't even characterize the city of the past decades, especially when Jane Jacobs moved here and New York started to look like it was verging on Detroit. You're just judging the cities on intangible criteria and your "lifeless" comment is ludicrous. Those are just the stereotypical Montrealer comments, often annoyingly chauvinistic. Montrealers can keep repeating those stereotypes, but they're just going to seem provincial.

There was a time, and not that long ago, that Toronto was measured against Montreal. Thankfully, that just doesn't seem to matter anymore. TheKingEast is just being nostalgic, and missing home, but that still doesn't excuse him from floating the usual stereotypical nonsense about Toronto. When people do react against such drivel, the next thing you hear about is " a huge inferiority complex ". Really ?

 

[TheKingEast]

There was a time, and not that long ago, that Toronto was measured against Montreal. Thankfully, that just doesn't seem to matter anymore. TheKingEast is just being nostalgic, and missing home, but that still doesn't excuse him from floating the usual stereotypical nonsense about Toronto. When people do react against such drivel, the next thing you hear about is " a huge inferiority complex ". Really ?

So just to get this straight. My observations of Toronto = stereotypical nonsense. Your observations of Toronto and Montreal = factual, truthful, etc.

Got ya.

 

[tkip]

The comparison of Toronto versus Montreal is a old one. I went to Montreal once and got treated like shit on a few occasions by some of the francophones. Montreal didn't come across as that tolerant.

 

[Thanos]

Let's not turn this into a Montreal bashing. It's very cliche of us as Canadians to do.
There's still a lot of racial tension in Montreal and not only between Anglo and Franco as was the case in the past.
Montreal does have a much better idea of city planning then Toronto does in the "tourist" areas of town. However, when you leave the downtown & old town and you experience Villeray, St-Michel, Park-Ex, Rosemont, Lachine, Lasalle, Verdun, Hochelaga, Mercier, Montreal Est have all been left behind by the city despite being older and more established than the Toronto equivalents.

 

[TheKingEast]

Let's not turn this into a Montreal bashing.

Too late.

 

[Tewder]

I'm never too sure what the point of these city comparison threads is. If it's to look at other places with an objective eye to see what we could do better, great. If it's to bash other places so as to feel better about ourselves, bummer. Ditto, bashing ourselves gratuitously! The idea that one place can be determined to be categorically better than another is delusional.

 

[Electrify]

When I was in Montreal, I didn't do too much socializing, but I did feel that people in Toronto were nicer. This isn't to say the people in Montreal were rude, far from it, but in Toronto when crammed on to a subway train I can have a solid conversation with someone I've never met. Maybe if I were more bi-lingual I could have found myself in such a situation, but generally most of my social situations were somewhat limited. I did have a bit of a chat with a teenage girl at La Ronde about my thoughts of the city, and some french kids offered me their chips at Parc du Mont Royal, but that was about the most of it.

I will say that the street people actually have much more of a spirit than they do here. I had one person give me directions, in which afterwards I gave him some change. Another one offered me a Mrs. Fields (sealed) cookie and I gave her some change in return. This opposed to Toronto where they can seem like the living dead. The only rude encounters I recall were of a crazy old lady who was paranoid of me shooting video in the subway, and of someone pulling out of my hotel parking lot and not stopping for me (I yelled over at him as he was driving away, "I should have let you hit me, so I could sue your ass!").

Fillip mentioned a few pages back that Montreal was based on the Continental style of city (aka: dirty industry and poor at the edge of the city, rich residential and commercial in the core) while Toronto and most North American cities were based on the British model (dirty industry and poor in the core, rich residential and commercial at the edge), and I was wondering if that played a part in my impressions of the city. Toronto and many major English cities have done a fantastic job revitalizing their city centre of the past few decades, but maybe there is something to be said about getting off on the right foot in the first place...