Toronto Massey Tower Condos | 206.95m | 60s | MOD Developments | Hariri Pontarini

not in Toronto.. NYC has zoning like that where a certian amount of FSI is assigned to each block and a tower can gain additional density by purchasing neighbouring structures.
 
innsertnamehere said:
not in Toronto.. NYC has zoning like that where a certian amount of FSI is assigned to each block and a tower can gain additional density by purchasing neighbouring structures.
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Are you sure? I think St. Andrew's Church, King St, sold its air rights a number of years ago. It couldn't have done so if there were not some rights to sell.
 
innsertnamehere said:
No such thing as air rights in Toronto, you can't just switch the density like that.
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Wrong. Wrong, and Wrong. This has been discussed before. Toronto has had many instances in the past of density rights being exchanged between sites (with the required approval by the City). Not much has happened recently. The success of developers either making a deal with the city, or appealing to the OMB to obtain the density they want for a given site has debased the value and cut back on the practice of acquiring development density rights from other properties in the area.

You must have heard the term 'as of right' pertaining to what a development could be without requiring either variances or rezoning. The 'as of right' would include the pre-existing allowable density for the site - in other words the 'air rights' that you refer to above, and say do not exist in Toronto.
 
Mike in TO said:
Hi Spire,

I guess I will chime in as the OHBA guy here on UT. I completely disagree with your suggestion that the awards are meaningless - in fact I would suggest the complete opposite is true and that within the industry the OHBA and BILD (and for that matter nationally the CHBA or internationally the NAHB) awards are the most meaningful awards there are out there for the industry. The awards have panels of judges and a robust criteria (I.e. Not "loyalties" to pick certain people) - but what makes them meaningful and important within the industry is that in this case MOD was judged by their peers in the industry and won against their peers. Within any industry people want to be judged the best by their peers and competitors and that why these awards mean so much to those that win them - they want to go up on stage and claim those awards that were judged by their peers/competitors in front of the hundreds of other industry people attending the awards galas.... So to them, within the industry, these awards are a big deal.

MOD basically cleaned up at both the BILD and OHBA awards last year... Also in the last couple of years Toronto developers have been taking home a sizable proportion of the NAHB international awards down in the US... So yeah I get that people want to be critical and we should always be striving to be better, but it does say something when our local product is also winning up to 1/4 of the categories at the NAHB awards in the states the past few years and even prior to the recession in the US.
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Nothing but marketing. Of course Toronto developers are winning- we build about 5x the amount of condos in this city than the nearest competitors.

Mike, I respect you but your comments are bias and you don't even seem to realize it. All of those awards exist to give the appearance of legitimate and prestige to developers, ie marketing and branding.

Let the projects speak for themselves. Let real critics speak to them, not infomercials.
 
I've always wondered why there are so few reviews of new condos. Only the Toronto Star with its small condo critic column actually reviews condos. The rest of the media who put out real estate sections publish marketing copy for developments. Development is having a huge impact on the public realm of our city. Buying a condo is one of the most important investments people will make in their lives. New condos should be reviewed and critiqued for their architecture, relationship with the surrounding neighbourhood and infrastructure, interior layouts, build quality and amenities.
 
junctionist said:
I've always wondered why there are so few reviews of new condos. Only the Toronto Star with its small condo critic column actually reviews condos. The rest of the media who put out real estate sections publish marketing copy for developments. Development is having a huge impact on the public realm of our city. Buying a condo is one of the most important investments people will make in their lives. New condos should be reviewed and critiqued for their architecture, relationship with the surrounding neighbourhood and infrastructure, interior layouts, build quality and amenities.
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The stuff most readers would be interested in reading about in any review are the interior layouts, finishes, amenities, fees and mangement, and those things can't really be reviewed without interviewing tenants/owners. You'll be hard-pressed to find a unit owner willing to devalue their own unit by slagging their building in public.
 
Ramako said:
The stuff most readers would be interested in reading about in any review are the interior layouts, finishes, amenities, fees and mangement, and those things can't really be reviewed without interviewing tenants/owners. You'll be hard-pressed to find a unit owner willing to devalue their own unit by slagging their building in public.
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Most people as residents of a city are interested in what's getting built in terms of architecture and relationship with the surrounding area. Are these buildings making the city ugly? Do they cause problems in the surrounding area like traffic, shadowing or overcrowding of existing public and private amenities? In terms of the units themselves, I don't think it would make a difference in value. If the layout is bad, people are going to discover that on their own when visiting prospective properties and won't pay top dollar for those units.

At least if it were more publicly known what each developer builds, there would be more pressure on developers to build what people consider to be good layouts with good quality. People already come on this site and discuss units and finish quality. In the automotive industry, bad cars get bad press in the hundreds of magazines and newspapers that review cars and bad sales, and within 5 years the car maker changes what they build. It's good for people to have critical media. This forum is filling the gap, but the media should also do more.
 
junctionist said:
I've always wondered why there are so few reviews of new condos. Only the Toronto Star with its small condo critic column actually reviews condos. The rest of the media who put out real estate sections publish marketing copy for developments. Development is having a huge impact on the public realm of our city. Buying a condo is one of the most important investments people will make in their lives. New condos should be reviewed and critiqued for their architecture, relationship with the surrounding neighbourhood and infrastructure, interior layouts, build quality and amenities.
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Neither Lisa Rochon nor John Bentley Mays of the Globe could hardly be considered copy-writers for the industry (as some developers have found out to their chagrin).

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/in-pictures-five-great-condos/article12744262/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...-tower-with-a-sensuous-embrace/article536020/

Also remember what the Design Review Panel said about the building:

Members were unanimous in expressing appreciation for the design, and the moves to "unlock" the
site's development potential. Some comments expressing this sentiment were as follows:
– The proposal turns a complicated problem into an elegant solution
– [the proposal is a] beautiful building with masterful architecture
– It is well mannered, simple and strong, deftly handled, and has the potential to become a
landmark

http://www1.toronto.ca/staticfiles/...rban_design/files/pdf/drp_minutes_21sep12.pdf
 
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I thought I better check to see if this is in fact true, and I'm pleased to say that…

konaman47, that's now officially one of the best first posts on UrbanToronto, ever. Welcome to UT!

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