Toronto Maple Leaf Square | 185.92m | 54s | Lanterra | KPMB

Mongo said:
My own thoughts, for what they are worth.

If this area is to become a dynamic, heavily trafficked neighbourhood, it needs to become a popular destination for Toronto residents in its own right. "Through traffic" to the Harbourfront, the ACC or the Skydome / CN tower is not enough, being seasonal (Harbourfront) or only during events (ACC and Skydome). In addition, these people would not be spending much money outside of their ultimate destinations. While a lot of people will be passing through this area, few of them will do anything other than transit without stopping, on their way to other destinations.
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  • it won't just be a through district...that is what it is now....but with the residents moving in there will be people who will be there "naturally" because they live there and work there
  • it will not be seasonal....it will be enhanced by the events but enhanced...the ACC and SkyDome will no longer be the only reason to be in the neihbourhood....they will be one of the reasons but not the reason
  • the hotels bring people who, on a per diem type basis, will spend more in shops and resto's....all of hte condo's in the area have ground floor retail...I presume the office buildings will have some too.....this will never be Kensington but it will not be sole-less either

There are already reasons for Torontoians to visit the area.....there just, currently, are not a lot of reasons to stay after the game or show....that is the part that is going to change.

I'll give you a real example......the people at MLSE probably do food and beverage (dining) better than most (all?) of their peers around north america.....the restaraunts inside the ACC (which are only accessible if you have certain "licensed" tickets) are excellent.....the Platinum lounge is very good fine (expensive but fine) dining, the Air Canada Club is sorta urban chic mixed grill type dining and the Hot Stove is a throw back to old school roast beef and yorkshire pre-game meals.....the problem is that only 50% +/- of their customers have access to this.....so the two restaraunt spaces in MLS are meant to be the pre and post game dining destinations for the other 50%.....people who currently are dining outside the neighbourhood.....this is meant to bring them to the neighbourhood to spend earlier and stay later......it is also meant to bring them to the neighbourhood when the home team is on the road...the hope is these will be the places to eat and watch when the Leafs/Raptors are not at home....I think it will all work and the spillover out of these places will benefit other bars/clubs/restaraunts in the 'hood....once they develop.
 
We should list out the "things" at this intersection to keep people occupied year round making this a "Prime Destination" for residents and tourist alike.


- Air Canada Centre ( Leafs, Raptors, Rock, Concerts)
- MLS (Condos Residential)
- Union Station ( largest transpo hub in the country)
- Skydome ( Concerts, Blue Jays, Argos)
- Convention Center
- Hotels
- Grocery Retail
- Offices ( Maple Leaf Square & 18 York, Telus)
- Restaruants / Bars
- Harbourfront

All of these attractions are all built at the corner of York and Bremmer, right? Unless your idea of a destination is sitting "ass on curb" at the corner of York and Bremmer...i dunno. I just don't see this area in any way close to the deadzones of MCC or Bay Street north of Queen...... This area is already very busy and the corner has not even been fully developed. There will be just too much going on here in the very new future to call it anything less than what it is..an Entertianment Destination Landmark in Toronto.
 
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That said, some here are suggesting that foot traffic 'passing through' or the sport bar node around the ACC will constitute a dynamic urban neighbourhood. I would beg to differ. At certain times of the day MCC also has foot traffic and residents, coming and going to or from Square One or the office towers around it, or coming and going through the transportation hub that exists there, yet still nobody would characterize the area as a definition of 'urban' that we would hope for in the central city of Toronto.
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King and Bay has little going on outside of business hours. And even then its just people walking to somewhere else. Is King and Bay not 'urban'?
 
We also have to look at newer areas that *are* emerging as urban, including Liberty Village and King Street west of Spadina. like Bremner/York (we need a name for this area soon) there are lots of condos and residents with people working and living in the area but the difference seems to be at street level and in the scale of development and diversity of activity. The notion of what is 'Urban' seems to be a bit of a slippery one but I think we would all recognize that at heart it's about the presence of a diversity of people in a meaningful way doing a diversity of activities: living, working, interacting, playing and just being. From this perspective York/Bremner as a transit hub and residential area with some notable tourist sites will no doubt feel busy and dynamic, at times at least, if not 'urban' as may be defined above. Again, this is the short-term view, as somebody already pointed out, and it is possible that things will change down the road once development is complete and the area starts to mature organically.
 
CityPlaceN1 said:
King and Bay has little going on outside of business hours. And even then its just people walking to somewhere else. Is King and Bay not 'urban'?
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My short answer would be 'no'. King and Bay are busy and dynamic at times but this doesn't necessarily mean 'urban'. Also, I'm assuming a definition of urban that pushes beyond the simple notion of being in the 'city' (the opposite of rural).
 
3439780186_e6cd1e5aa0.jpg


Another shot from sammo at SSP - ACC / MLS
 
For some people, the characteristic of a street as nothing more than a major pedestrian thoroughfare is a draw in itself. Considering the high number of tourists and event-goers in the area, it will be a great place for hotdog stands, buskers, promotions, or any dude with a megaphone. Also, as long as smoking indoors remain illegal, you can expect to see a steady presence of people hanging out in front of every office building or sports bar. Maybe throw in a couple of those public notice boards, and a playful public art piece and you're set.
 
Tewder said:
like Bremner/York (we need a name for this area soon)
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Indeed. The other portions of the former Rail Lands Redevelopment Area west of Yonge have their own names (Harbourfront, Fort York Neighbourhood, Cityplace) so why not this one?

First of all, what are the area boundaries? Does this area include the CN Tower and Skydome or not? How about the ACC, 18 Yonge and the future 45 Bay? I assume that the Pinnacle Centre is included, being north of Lakeshore.

As for a name, one option would be to reference the neighbouring districts:

Harbourfront North
CBD South (kinda lame, I know, but that is what it is mostly zoned for)

Or the name could reference its historical or current uses:

Transportation Lands (former rail lands, north of the harbour, south of Union Station)
Sports District (being located between the ACC and the Skydome)
 
Like I said in the 18 york street thread, this area needs a huge retail mall. Eatons center is far away for walkers, and getting overcrowded.
 
I presume any plans for Union Station ought to involve some semblance of a "huge retail mall"--and it isn't like what exists btw/the Eaton Centre and here, PATHwise, isn't huge and retail enough; or that like the Eaton Centre is, in the end, terribly different in its fare from PATH...
 
My suggestion for a neighbourhood name: The Blue Mile.

Calgary has its Red Mile during the NHL Playoffs. Since this stretch of Bremner will be anchored with the SkyDome at one end with the Blue Jays and the blue-clad Argos, and the other end by the ACC and the blue-wearing Maple Leafs (unfortunately the Raptors don't fit into the pattern). Hopefully this sports-themed name will attract sports fans to come down to this stretch during any sports playoffs (if any Toronto team actually does make it to the postseason).
 
wyliepoon said:
Hopefully this sports-themed name will attract sports fans to come down to this stretch during any sports playoffs (if any Toronto team actually does make it to the postseason).
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Unless the Canadian Juniors roll into town, I wouldn't count on the bubbly popping anytime soon, certainly not in my lifetime.
 
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