Toronto Living Shangri-La Toronto | 214.57m | 66s | Westbank | James Cheng

Correct me If I'm wrong but if the banks require a significant amount of pre-sales before they lend the construction companies any money to do the construction, why would anybody break ground if the project wasn't a viable one and wasn't going to be completed.

Also a project like Shangri-la is mainly being purchased by foreign investors who are not exactly strapped for cash. The projects I would be more worried about grinding to a halt if any would be projects like cityplace, a project consisting of lower end condos with average finishes purchased by average people who can't afford to over spend in the current economy.
 
livdb - welcome to the forum. The questions you are asking should be posted in the Real Estate forum, more than the Projects and Construction forum.

42
 
Correct me If I'm wrong but if the banks require a significant amount of pre-sales before they lend the construction companies any money to do the construction, why would anybody break ground if the project wasn't a viable one and wasn't going to be completed.

Most often (almost always) ground is not broken nor construction commenced until pre-sales (or pre-leasing in the case of office buildings) have reached a level that allows for a bank/lender to commit to the project. There are rare cases (the Bow in Calgary for example) where a developer goes ahead without construction financing. It is, always, the developer's cash/equity that goes into a project first so the digging is usually done without lender money (even if there is a loan committed to).

Digging and building are a sign that someone believes the project is viable.


Also a project like Shangri-la is mainly being purchased by foreign investors who are not exactly strapped for cash. The projects I would be more worried about grinding to a halt if any would be projects like cityplace, a project consisting of lower end condos with average finishes purchased by average people who can't afford to over spend in the current economy.

As a lender, I can assure you that I worry way (repeat that a few times before moving to the next word) more when the project is totally/significantly/substantially sold to investors rather than owner occupiers and that concern is magnified even further when said investors are off shore folks.

Some reasons:

1. Deposit as a percentage of wealth......if I am a gazillionaire living in some far off land who thought it would be a good idea to have a pied-à-terre in Toronto and put down, say, a $100,000 deposit on a $500,000 unit but, somewhere between purchase and completion, the world's/toronto's financial situation changes.....I have lost a few millions here or there and my unit in Toronto is now worth, say, $400,000, I may decide that is an investment going the wrong way and putting more money in is "good money after bad" and my resources are better off fixing the businesses/investments that are core to me and have cost me to lose a few millions.....so I do not close on the condo in Toronto and I forfeit my deposit....probably no big deal.

Compare/contrast that to the couple/person who bought a $200,000 unit to live in.....srimped and saved to pay $30,000 deposit.....now owe $170,000 which they can get on a mortgage and afford on their salary......losing that $30,000 would be catastrophic....would probably represent, either, years and years of saving or all of the money their families could muster to give them to get off on good start......those people, typically, find a way to close!

2. Everybody has to live somewhere....using the example above...gazillionaire still has a roof over his head wether or not he closes on his purchase in Toronto.....the other purchaser is faced with a "close on the condo purchase or continue to rent" decision.....even if the condo has lost value they close because the mortgage payment goes towards building equity for them rather than a landlord and the occupancy cost to them is not much different!

3. Unit liquidity....in the event unit purchasers do not close....there is a much deeper market for the $200k unit than the $500k (and up) units...always has been always will be....so it is easier for my borrower client to find new purchasers for those unts.

Now this is not to suggest that you should jump over to the "Shangri-la will not happen camp"....it will. It has its pre-sales, it has solid owner/developer sponsorship and it has a construction loan in place. In any market, however, these sort of condos are harder to finance than the bread-and-butter home-ownership projects...for good reason.
 
Why is this excavation so deep? Is it for parking, soil conditions, a special underground amenity?
 
Secret chemical lab for the Chinese Government :eek:

Jokes, but I really wonder what the all time record for deepest foundation hole was in Toronto. my best guess is the CN Tower.
 
If you count it, probably that massive EnWave hellmouth that's had Hayter closed off for what feels like forever
 
Secret chemical lab for the Chinese Government :eek:

Jokes, but I really wonder what the all time record for deepest foundation hole was in Toronto. my best guess is the CN Tower.

Surprisingly, the CN Tower's foundation hole is only 50 feet deep. However, it has a massive 25 foot thick reinforced concrete base at the bottom of the foundation. It's built like a Weeble - it may wobble but it won't fall down.:D
 
15.24 metres. Wow! surprisingly shalow, but yeah, I guess it is in the relative shape of a streched Atari logo, if you know what I mean.

BTW, I love google, I just typed "15 feet=" and it said what it was in metres, very convenient.
 
15.24 metres. Wow! surprisingly shalow, but yeah, I guess it is in the relative shape of a streched Atari logo, if you know what I mean.

BTW, I love google, I just typed "15 feet=" and it said what it was in metres, very convenient.

i found this;
666 = 1cubed + 2cu. + 3cu. + 4cu. + 5cu. + 6cubed + 5cu. + 4cu. + 3cu. + 2cu.+ 1cubed. mathematical palindrome!

i bet that if i climbed to the very top of the cn tower,to the little pointy tip, i could pull this 'stick in the mud' thing over. it's all leverage. of course, i would never do this...
 
I donno...the Trump building will at least have taller in-suite ceilings than the Shangri-la. Shangri-la will mostly have 10' ceilings, and Trump will have 11'-13' ceilings.

I prefer the Trump floorplans to the Shangri-la plans, except most Trump units don't have external balconies. The Shangri-la plans are "very vancouver"... they have open kitchens. If you have staff that cooks for you or who are preparing food for a dinner party, they will be open to the living area. I notice in Trump (and Ritz, Museum House, Four Seasons, and most existing luxury towers in Toronto) that kitchens are enclosed rooms for which your cook/food preparation person can be out of sight, as well as cooking smells out of nose ;)

Just my opinion, as I examine luxury 'all open' condos here in Vancouver. I prefer the Toronto floorplans personally, insofar as the Toronto residences are better able to graciously handle formal entertaining.

I think this has a lot to do with the size of the units. The Shangri-la starts from ~800 sqft for a 1 bedroom, where the Ritz, Trump and FS has much bigger sizes on average.

also Pls keep in mind that the residence suites at the Shangri-La also gets services from the hotel, such as the room service from the hotel restaurant. In Vancouver here the Shangri-La has the MARKET by Jean Georges, just had lunch there last week and the food was reallly good but not pricy at all.

Personally I much prefer the Shangri-la floor plans over that of Ritz/FS, it feels much more grand to be in your 1800Sqft open layout private residence than a 2500sqft Ritz style home where all you see is doors.....
 
they must be close to being finished excavation on the one side or do they have to go down one more floor.
 

Back
Top