Toronto King East Centre | 140m | 39s | First Gulf | WZMH

What's with all the parking lot hatred?

Sometimes I think that UT members need to get over themselves. I know, I know, this is the last bastion of urbanity fighting the good fight against the forces of the evil car... BUT...

1. The Porsche dealership is a CAR DEALERSHIP. Of COURSE it's going to have a parking lot. Fer Gawd's sake, people! (Remember, they agreed to move since their original building site sat on the first Parliament building site. So it's not like they're uncaring about the city. OTOH... they SELL CARS.)

2. As has been pointed out by others, the No Frills is all about re-purposing an otherwise abandoned building (except the two wirereaders grabbing copy for the Sun upstairs, but I digress...). However, what's up with the 'you can't walk across parking lots because there are cars in them' silliness. C'mon people, you've never seen a parking lot before? That's what you do, park your car, then walk across the parking lot to the store. Courage! Y'all can do that without the car to park.
 
I suppose that was a reference towards my comment, so here goes. To get the off-topic topic out of the way, Porsche didn't have to lay the site out as they did, and could've presented the building to the corner King and Parliament; a fairly prominent intersection like that deserves more. The empty space could've been corralled to the back, against the Staples property line. Look at dealerships like Mini's on King West, they manage to sell cars without a huge parking lot out front.

Regarding walking across parking lots, yeah that's real enjoyable for people who don't own cars or just prefer to walk places. These are the people who make up a lot of the downtown neighbourhoods, so why is a store with an entrance set back from the street, across a parking lot acceptable here? Now, of course they may be putting in an entrance directly off King or Princess, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Lastly, we're past the regrettable era of throwing down parking lots like they're going out of style (which they have). Our city deserves more attractive and multi-functional spaces, and in a redevelopment situation such as this, I had high hopes that we'd see an improvement. This stretch of Front is pretty dreary, and it seems like it's not getting any better.
 
At the last Corktown Residents meeting, the rep from streetcar explained that there wasn't likely to be a full grocery store in the base of their King St East development because there wouldn't be a good place for big delivery trucks to pull up and unload.

Looking at this site plan, it looks like they had to maintain the parking/loading dock to accommodate a grocery store tenant like No Frills.
 
egotrippin said:
I suppose that was a reference towards my comment, so here goes. To get the off-topic topic out of the way, Porsche didn't have to lay the site out as they did, and could've presented the building to the corner King and Parliament; a fairly prominent intersection like that deserves more. The empty space could've been corralled to the back, against the Staples property line. Look at dealerships like Mini's on King West, they manage to sell cars without a huge parking lot out front..
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>> Porsche presented the building to the corner of Front and Parliament and paved over the old TTC bus turning area for the parking lot, which made a lot of sense given the site. There's nowhere near enough space to have a building on Parliament and a parking lot to the west behind Staples. And, the Mini dealer on King West has moved over to Eastern beside the BMW site (beautiful new building!) so they would have room for their cars. With few exceptions, folks want to look at a lot of cars when they go shopping for cars.

egotrippin said:
Regarding walking across parking lots, yeah that's real enjoyable for people who don't own cars or just prefer to walk places. These are the people who make up a lot of the downtown neighbourhoods, so why is a store with an entrance set back from the street, across a parking lot acceptable here? Now, of course they may be putting in an entrance directly off King or Princess, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.
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Because the parking lot is small, and already in place, and it will also act as the loading dock. Your comment wasn't that it wasn't 'enjoyable', but rather that it was dangerous. Which seems a little over the top, no?

egotrippin said:
Lastly, we're past the regrettable era of throwing down parking lots like they're going out of style (which they have). Our city deserves more attractive and multi-functional spaces, and in a redevelopment situation such as this, I had high hopes that we'd see an improvement. This stretch of Front is pretty dreary, and it seems like it's not getting any better.
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Again, they're taking the back of a disused building, making it functional, filling it with retail. There will be signage, people, movement where there was none. It will be a huge improvement -- but because it will repurpose an existing parking lot, you're filled with despair! C'mon, it's going to be a great improvement!
 
Best use? The market will decide given time. Do retailers need to ask us first before leasing space?

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Look at dealerships like Mini's on King West, they manage to sell cars without a huge parking lot out front.
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Poor example...they're no longer on King West, they're in their new building with a huge parking lot.
 
Or a Vancouver-style dealership:

1)Entire ground floor is the dealership building, including showroom space and garages.

2)Parking on the roof/2nd/3rd/4th floors of the building, with 2nd floor being part of the showroom, 3rd and 4th floor for residents and/or customers.

3)3-10 floors of condos above.

It's a Porsche dealership--it should say "posh."

But guess what? I know the owner via a friend, and the owner is really cheap, ironic given the product he sells....

As for No Frills and parking lots? Realistically, No Frills is a low cost low margin grocery store, so why spend more money losing customers? Besides, having "free" parking is an asset.:) (In my 'hood, if I'm ever in a car in need of parking, I pop into No Frills for 5 minutes, leave the car in the lot and get brunch etc in a trendy Junction cafe. Free parking rocks!)

Will this building one day go highrise residential? No doubt, probably in about 10-20 years, or whenever the DD gets built out to meet King and Parliament area.
 
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Is a Princess Street entrance for No Frillls really confirmed? The doors on Princess look more to be a fire exit or emergency exit.

The rendering and construction to me clearly shows the Main Entrance fronting onto the parking lot on Front St E.
 
My prediction is that within five years of No Frills opening, the Front and Princess Sobeys will go under.

(But I hope that's not the case)..
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
this is the last bastion of urbanity fighting the good fight against the forces of the evil car....
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Last bastion? That metaphor doesn't really make sense since the battle to urbanize downtown and eliminate parking lots has been going very well. If anyone is down to their last bastion, it would be people who think surface parking is a good way to use up downtown land.
 
beaconer said:
My prediction is that within five years of No Frills opening, the Front and Princess Sobeys will go under.

(But I hope that's not the case)..
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I'm going to go with the opposite. People gripe about Sobey's prices, but the urban market store with a focus on prepared foods is a good fit for all the condos in the area.

I'm biased, though, because I love the Front/Princess Sobey's.
 
They are car dealerships in cities around the world where the dealership occupies the ground floor retail space of building and there is no parking lot visible from a main street. I've seen it with mainstream brands like Toyota and Hyundai, to say nothing of an elite brand like Porsche.

The area has so much potential and surface parking lots are never go far in making for a great urban area. To think so is not an expression of some ferry tale war on cars; parking can always be implemented by integrating it into another building or below a public space. Such projects are more functional for a neighbourhood.
 
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