drum118
Superstar
Nov 21
duffo
Active Member
From Metrolinx CEO's future transit map that he posted on LinkedIn. Interesting...
The progress and changes that are occurring in this organization is impressive with new leadership at the helm. Lets celebrate the successes and initiatives that are evolving in real time! We… | Mark Salsberg
The progress and changes that are occurring in this organization is impressive with new leadership at the helm. Lets celebrate the successes and initiatives that are evolving in real time! We appreciate all the hard work you and your team are doing for our city and region. Keep up the great work!
www.linkedin.com
micheal_can
Senior Member
View attachment 699470
From Metrolinx CEO's future transit map that he posted on LinkedIn. Interesting...
The progress and changes that are occurring in this organization is impressive with new leadership at the helm. Lets celebrate the successes and initiatives that are evolving in real time! We… | Mark Salsberg
The progress and changes that are occurring in this organization is impressive with new leadership at the helm. Lets celebrate the successes and initiatives that are evolving in real time! We appreciate all the hard work you and your team are doing for our city and region. Keep up the great work!
Would that mean an eventual connection to Line 2?
nfitz
Superstar
Mississauga mayor Carolyn Parrish doesn't expect the line to open before 2029.
https://www.insauga.com/lrt-line-co...-than-initially-planned-in-mississauga-mayor/
https://www.insauga.com/lrt-line-co...-than-initially-planned-in-mississauga-mayor/
stevensontransit
Active Member
Is she this satire?Mississauga mayor Carolyn Parrish doesn't expect the line to open before 2029.
https://www.insauga.com/lrt-line-co...-than-initially-planned-in-mississauga-mayor/
urbanclient
Active Member
Based on the current progress, 2029 is a reasonable estimate. Construction started in 2020 and was to be complete by end of 2024.Mississauga mayor Carolyn Parrish doesn't expect the line to open before 2029.
https://www.insauga.com/lrt-line-co...-than-initially-planned-in-mississauga-mayor/
That is a project that is 125% late. 9 years instead of 4 years. The delay is longer than the original project length.
If this were China, multiple officials and business owners would be detained while under investigation for graft and corruption by now. Toronto really is a unserious place. How can the two cities of Vancouver and Montreal, known to be hotbeds for snow washing and organized crime, be better at building transit than the GTHA.
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Steve X
Senior Member
Some sections of the line really look like Finch in 2021. Like what on earth is happening at near Steeles?
drum118
Superstar
All kinds of hydro and telecommunication had to be removed first before new utility work could start. Now that those items have been removed, construction has begun on the sewer, water lines, and other utilities to widen the south-east corner. The southwest corner still has to be done.
Then you have the work still to be done south of Steeles to the fire station.
Nov 28
Concrete has been poured for the southbound track by the fire station, and we expect the southbound track to be done on Saturday, with the driveway top coat next week. Once that is done, the temporary access lane will be removed to allow the building of the rest of the trackwork to just south of Pailisly.
ericmacm
Active Member
Interesting, makes you wonder if the “MCC Loop” is actually going to end up that way once the study is complete, or if it will evolve into something totally different.View attachment 699470
From Metrolinx CEO's future transit map that he posted on LinkedIn. Interesting...
The progress and changes that are occurring in this organization is impressive with new leadership at the helm. Lets celebrate the successes and initiatives that are evolving in real time! We… | Mark Salsberg
The progress and changes that are occurring in this organization is impressive with new leadership at the helm. Lets celebrate the successes and initiatives that are evolving in real time! We appreciate all the hard work you and your team are doing for our city and region. Keep up the great work!
Undead
Senior Member
Pretty sure there's no connection between any of that.
nfitz
Superstar
If this was China, then they'd be jacking up the existing subway with bamboo, and then prosecuting all sorts of people at the intermediate level, when those in the top level (and anyone on the street) knew they were using bamboo, but afraid to say anything because of the totalitarian regime.
Better? Each of those cities has only one or two projects under construction, mostly running late, and little in the pipeline. What are we at ... 12? Not including some massive projects like the $billions Bloor-Yonge expansion. And then there's smaller projects underway - like a half-dozen new GO stations here and there. When was the last time that Montreal added a new EXO station - they seem to keep talking about shutting down EXO, not expanding. Vancouver hasn't opened a new commuter rail station in 30 years ... other than moving one a bit to intersect properly with a new Skytrain station.
Toronto isn't immune from corruption. Though I haven't heard much about corruption in any of the recent transport projects in any city (more like incompetence). However look at the St. Michael's Hospital debacle.
Dan416
Senior Member
If you look at the full map it looks like they're going with "Eglinton & Hurontario" and "Dundas & Hurontario" for those station names. Which in and of itself is fine, but then there's "Jane and Finch" station on the Finch West line, and of course we have "Eglinton" on the "Eglinton Line", and then "Bloor-Yonge" and "Sheppard-Yonge", but it doesn't look like they are changing "Queen" station either. It drives my OCD mad that even stations that are named after the cross-streets are not named consistently, and instead have 3 different ways of naming, and then other intersecting lines only use the name of one of the streets for both stations, so we really have 4 different ways of naming stations....which is insane and something that having a regional authority like Metrolinx is supposed to solve. But I would say Metrolinx naming schemes are even worse than the TTC's, which had already gotten overly politicized by the time of the extension to Vaughan (see VMC, Pioneer Village) and also now the Dundas to TMU fiasco, and Eglinton West to Cedarvale which I guess is Metrolinx's fault.
urbanclient
Active Member
Let's give the benefit of the doubt to borderline jingoistic rhetoric on China. We are comparing Ontario, a jurisdiction of 13 to 16 million which has seen 0 investigations or inquiries on public transportation corruption since 2013 [1] versus China, a country of 1.3 to 1.4 billion in the same span of time. Let's assume you are right about China being corrupt to the point where stations are made of bamboo metaphorically. The absence of a real investigation into corruption in Metrolinx does not mean it is some whistle clean organization either [3]. More to the point, how are we ok with less transparency from Metrolinx than what @nfitz would call a third-world "totalitarian regime" which has local governments that give accurate updates on the project progress (I don't want to post unsecure Chinese links so DM for screenshots of official updates on 100s of km of subways in progress).
Eglinton was supposed to open by
Call me an armchair political analyst, but I am pretty sure in China this level of dilly-dallying from the parties involved in Eglinton would result in a permanently damaged political career or blacklist for a contractor...at best. And party expulsion and criminal investigation at worst. Some degree of corruption is expected, kickbacks, skimming off the top, it's how business is done in many places, but to be delayed by 50% with little to no explanation, to the point where transit enthusiasts have to scour board meeting documents is genuinely sad. Hurontario is somehow worse. Are we really that inept and opaque compared to a third-world country? It seems like this level of incompetence and opaqueness is normalized.
1. https://www.ctvnews.ca/toronto/article/former-metrolinx-manager-faces-corruption-charges/
2. https://www.reddit.com/r/TTC/comments/1mrmbux/complete_history_of_missed_eglinton_line_opening/
3. https://www.canadianlawyermag.com/p...sclose-anonymous-complainants-identity/388430
Accounting for Canadian delay culture:
Vancouver has ~80 km of Skytrain with 101 km by 2030.
CMA has 3.1 million people over 2,879 km^2
Montreal has ~70 km of metro and 50 km of REM, total of 120 km now; 76 km metro by 2032, along with 67 km of REM by 2028, 143 km of local and regional metro by 2028.
CMA has 4.6 million people over 4,670 km^2
Toronto has 70 km of subway, with 101 km by 2035.
City proper has a population of 3.3 million over 630 km^2
CMA has 7.1 million people over 5,903 km^2
So yeah, Toronto is clearly behind two peer cities on rapid transit, especially on a per-capita level. Ontario line won't even be completed by 2032 if the leaks are to be believed, so we'll be stuck at 70 km of subway while Van and Mtl maintain a 10 km+ lead. Even if you include UP and Line 5 below grade and its western extension, is it a worthy comparison when Van and Mtl are much smaller cities?
If anyone was fortunate enough to be in Europe or Asia in the last 10 years, they'd realize how behind we are in transit.
Despite the fact we are assumed to be less corrupt in most things than say Southern Europe or China, public transit procurement is certainly not one of them. In fact, we are arguably one of the most corrupt in the world in that regard.
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urbanclient
Active Member
I knew it was a figure of speech so I re-added the emphasis I deleted earlier.
I'm not bootlicking any foreign regime.
I am pointing out that there are aspects of society, notably public transit procurement where we are somehow more opaque and arguably more corrupt than say Southern Europe or China. Even if our labour protections are significantly stronger, and even if there are parts of our society that are markedly more transparent and less corrupt, I don't think it would be an unreasonable aspiration for us to learn from the strengths of others while also avoiding the same mistakes. To aspire to be better, look up to those better than you, not down on those beneath you.
The attitude that even some of the most-pro transit people here have borders on complacency in certain contexts. This claim about rapid transit not being able to compete with cars is demonstrably untrue, case in point the REM among myriad cases worldwide. Even the Yonge side of Line 1 which I talk crap about frequently beats cars all day from north of the 401. Your other choices are taking Yonge/adjacent streets downtown or the DVP-Gardiner.
At what point does rush hour become the whole day? Do we call it rush hour due to the amount of congestion compared to 9pm or the actual time of day 7-9am, 4-6pm?
Anyone who takes the 401 knows that there is traffic forcing sub 100 km/h average speeds all day, and certainly not just at the start and end of a 8 to 4 or 9 to 5. A 60 minute drive out from inner Toronto to the outer cities of the GTHA is always 90 minutes+ between 8 am and 7pm.
We should at least aim to do better than Montreal and Vancouver. Both of which clearly have better rapid transit in the core. If it's true Line 6 and Line 10 cost $3.5 and $5.6 billion respectively, all while trundling at bus speed, then we are getting ripped off.
P.S. for the sake of respecting the truth, I want to point out that the bamboo scaffolding in Hong Kong was not the main issue. The main issue was the use of flammable styrofoam on the windows and flammable netting. Widespread corruption and cost-cutting nonetheless.
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micheal_can
Senior Member
The argument that transit cannot/should not compete with the car shows how the car is still king in Canada. The transit can compete with a car in many ways, including rush hour speeds.