Amare
Senior Member
Metrolinx always assumes riders will be able to use the TTC for whatever odd reasoning they have. It's been like this with any closures they have on their lines.
treplow
New Member
Mississauga has fully adopted the Los Angeles strategy of "let's put our dowtown core nowhere near the waterfront for some reason".
sixrings
Senior Member
Well it’s the most successful downtown of the immediate cities next to Toronto so the location may not be perfect but everything isn’t wrong.
drum118
Superstar
Mississauga doesn't have a downtown, but a shopping centre with everything wrong for the core.
sixrings
Senior Member
Ok. But I’m not going to buy Richmond hill, Pickering or Brampton having a more successful downtown. Even if it’s just a shopping centre.
Amare
Senior Member
I'm curious, what makes Mississauga's city centre "successful" exactly?
We're talking about a car loving city, where there's virtually no pedestrian/retail life in it's city centre outside of the Square One mall, a city that cant properly relocate it's major transit terminal to a location next to it's busiest arterial where it makes far greater sense, cant build a proper/non-half baked "city centre" LRT station, etc.
We're talking about a car loving city, where there's virtually no pedestrian/retail life in it's city centre outside of the Square One mall, a city that cant properly relocate it's major transit terminal to a location next to it's busiest arterial where it makes far greater sense, cant build a proper/non-half baked "city centre" LRT station, etc.
sixrings
Senior Member
I lived in Scarborough. There was basically no pedestrian/retail life there either. Toronto is a big city. And we should be honest that most of it is car loving as well. We should also recognize that a large part of Toronto is no where near the lake. That doesn't mean that Yonge and Eglinton, Bayview village, Bridal path are not desirable areas or are suddenly not part of Toronto. I also lived at Eglinton and Allen and that place wasn't perfect either. Yorkdale sucked all the retail out of the area leaving Eglinton east of Allen as restaurants which were just as often take out places since the houses were so big people didnt walk to Eglinton. West of Allen is a disaster. Sure in 10-15 years there will be vast improvements. In 10-15 years there will be another 30 or so 50 floor buildings at MCC.
There is a good amount of pedestrians all around MCC and it is not just the mall. There is Living Arts Centre. I take my son to the city hall which has a mini Art gallery. Outside the city hall there is celebration square which is more lively in my opinion than City hall in Toronto (I lived at king and University for years and saw it as mostly a place for New Years eve) Even the mall and god forbid there is a mall but it has a nice water fountain area for kids on the north side and a nice rock garden south of Holts. Kariya park is stellar. Even Torontonians should recognize it as successful. It could be twice the size but its something. Sheridan has a campus downtown so there are students around. When I think of downtown I think of entertainment. PLaydium was there for years. Now there is a Rec Room and Nurf opened where playdium was.There is a nice library under renovations close to city hall. Finally there are a number of offices. The two red buildings, the blue building, the one east of celebration square and then the 6 of them directly beside Hurontario. I do not think MCC is perfect but its miles ahead despite its debatable location.
I agree the GO station should move. That said Mississauga for years was just a place where we built subdivisions. Guess what that was every suburb. Yet Mississauga managed to do it while keep something of a core. I would hope with the new emphasis put on density that we see more of the amenities that we would find in major cities and yes that includes moving the GO station.
Towered
Superstar
Port Credit has the urban bones that MCC could only wish for.
sixrings
Senior Member
Half the size, far less highway access and about 100x the NIMBYs. In an alternate time line this may have worked.
Downtown Toronto was built when boat access was more important and there was very little NIMBYs. Mississauga is growing up in a different world.
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khaldoon
Active Member
Rails are ready to be installed in the Britannia-Matheson section.
SashaLemon
Active Member
All these fake "new downtowns" in Mississauga, Vaughn, whatever just have like massive boulevards that are practically urban freeways. The public realm is just overall awful most of the time. The car is still king despite an attempt at urbanism. It is truly the Dubai school of urban planning...
just east of the creek
Active Member
Port Credit, like other similar historical lakefront ports (Oakville, Burlington to the west) we’re founded when boat access was the only high speed connection between centres and are now constrained by historical geography - rivers, the major railroads that followed settlement, the Developement of suburbs and the major highways (QEW) and historical neighbourhoods. And yes, you will encounter a body of the neighbourhood that is resistant to change. So change does move at a slower pace but it is happening. Port Credit and Burlington are examples.
Good or Bad, Port Credit was demolishing period homes and erecting apt blocks from the 60‘s. Is it or was it a substantially better place to live? I am sure many would debate that, but there are now legacies that can be learned from.
Greenfield sites from the 60’s and 70’s and beyond allow for much more creativity if political leadership follows the images urban planners from those decades often have.
One of the wishes I have is that I had retained some of the volumes of early planning conceptions of Mississauga. My father used to bring them home and I would pour through them. So I can tell you that a light rail or similar system running along Hwy 10/Hurontario is not a new concept.
I can also remember that Cooksville (Hwy 5 Dundas and Hwy 10) was to be an urban node with rail connections, and that concept has disintegrated into the mess it is now.
Oakville now has their Midtown, Bronte, Palermo (disaster), North West, Hospital and North East planning districts, which are a combination of brownfield; greenfield and mixed heritages underway. And further to the west, Waterdown is one large building site.
All of these planning districts centering on Dundas lack the heavy rail commuting option or some sort of a higher speed commuting option (outside of the car based 407) with the exception of the Cooksville/MCC/Hwy 10 connection. That is a weakness.
sixrings
Senior Member
University avenue and lakeshore are practically urban free ways as well. The point is the car is king in Toronto as well. You guys are burying a lrt in eglinton west because guess what the car is king. Sheppard east lrt is cancelled because car is king in Scarborough. Don’t act too pretentious. Toronto isn’t exactly old Quebec City. A large part of it is pretty dang car centric.
khaldoon
Active Member
Though I mostly agree, you have to consider that downtowns are not built overnight or in one step. You can’t compare these fledging cities with Toronto or other older cities. Mississauga has started attempting to do this only ~ 20 years ago and you can see some slow progress west of square one to Confederation pkwy.
sixrings
Senior Member
New idea or old idea what matters is that hurontario is happening now. We can dwell on the past but just like in Scarborough people wouldn’t move STC to Kennedy road and eglinton, square one, it’s library, it’s city hall, it’s dozen office building, the living arts centre are not moving to cooksville or port credit. The more density that comes to mcc the more push at least in the area will be for more amenities and offices.