Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[andrewpmk]

And particular reason you are against hurontario?

I am less against Hurontario than Sheppard, just concerned about traffic congestion getting worse rather than better. Also GO expansion is much more important. There isn't a reasonable subway alternative to Hurontario like there is for Eglinton and Sheppard.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I am less against Hurontario than Sheppard, just concerned about traffic congestion getting worse rather than better. Also GO expansion is much more important. There isn't a reasonable subway alternative to Hurontario like there is for Eglinton and Sheppard.

Of course it is but that is aslo on CP Rail, not just GO at this point.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Except for the inevitable delays on either line which cause 1000 people to be standing around waiting to transfer..

Sheppard Line has excellent on time performance. Based on the on time performance of the 510 and 512, I'd expect the same thing of SELRT as well.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

All transit has delays. Holding LRT's to some unreasonable standard is unfair.

 

[doady]

Yes?

:3

The bus lane on Eglinton east is only in effect 7am-10am, 3pm-7pm Monday-Friday. So the traffic is significantly worse at 3:05pm when the bus lane is in effect than 2:55pm when it isn't. The bus lane seems to be making traffic significantly worse and probably doesn't speed the buses up very much. And this is with the bus lane allowing HOVs to use it as well, and some drivers disobeying it (though most seem to obey it in my experience).

Outer HOV lanes basically impossible to enforce. The standard practice now is to put them in the middle. So I think these HOV lanes have no effect on congestion for better or worse.

In other words when the Eglinton LRT gets built, traffic will get worse. Given that many of the people driving in that area are shopping at big box stores buying large quantities of stuff, they will never use the LRT. You see the same problem at Keele/St Clair.

Cities can change. If the LRT impedes big box, then big box will change to something else. Question is, is big box worth preserving?

Big box/power centres, they are based on cheap land (e.g. former industrial) and car access. If the LRT raises land values and turns Eglinton into a transit-based, then those types of uses will disappear. It is natural.

I assume that the same is true with Hurontario because much of the traffic on the worst congested section of Hurontario is coming off the 401 and can't logically use the LRT.

Did you see the congestion at Hurontario/401 when Hurontario was 4 lanes? Or 6 lanes?

People coming off the 401 can't logically use the inner lanes whether they are preserved for LRT or not. And those inner lanes were built for LRT in mind.

Also there is a lot of truck traffic in that area. The number of people driving around Mississauga will probably remain the same while a bunch of induced demand starts using the LRT and making it overcrowded.

The Hurontario-Main LRT will be 2-car trains on day one, for around 120,000 riders per day. They could easily add 3rd or 4th car if needed. I don't think it's a big deal.

But I don't understand how the LRT could become so overcrowded and yet "the number of people driving around Mississauga will probably remain the same". It seems contradictary.

If LRT cannot handle demand along Hurontario and Mississauga needs to build a heavy-rail subway to ease overcrowding, that means Mississauga has arrived. That's exactly what happened with Yonge back in the day, and look at Toronto now.

Except for the inevitable delays on either line which cause 1000 people to be standing around waiting to transfer.

I don't think you complain about trains being delayed and also complain about giving ROWs for trains at the same time.

About 150,000 per day for Sheppard LRT (3x existing Sheppard subway) seems insane to me. This is Metrolinx's own number. So what, does this mean Sheppard subway also carries 150,000 or so if the vast majority of riders get off at Don Mills? We are talking a number that is almost half the Bay Area Rapid Transit's entire ridership.

BART is comparable to GO. It's a regional system. Of course it will compare unfavourably to a very frequent local system in terms of ridership.

It's the same way Lakeshore West GO barely has higher ridership than TTC 32 Eglinton West despite being many times longer. It's not a fair comparison.

 

[DKsan]

Got this email today:

The Hurontario-Main LRT project team would like to thank you for taking the time to attend and provide written comments on the material presented at the Public Information Centre #3 on March 26 and 27, 2014, for the Hurontario-Main Light Rail Transit (LRT) project. The project team has reviewed your input and the attached letter is provided to address your comments.

All comments received with regards to the preferred alignment for the Hurontario-Main LRT system were considered in preparing the recommended project design. The recommended project has been documented in an Environmental Project Report that will be available on the project website for the public and other stakeholders to review on June 19, 2014. In the interim, all information pertaining to the project is available on the website for you to review www.hurontario-main.ca.

 

[drum118]

Got this email today:

The Hurontario-Main LRT project team would like to thank you for taking the time to attend and provide written comments on the material presented at the Public Information Centre #3 on March 26 and 27, 2014, for the Hurontario-Main Light Rail Transit (LRT) project. The project team has reviewed your input and the attached letter is provided to address your comments.

All comments received with regards to the preferred alignment for the Hurontario-Main LRT system were considered in preparing the recommended project design. The recommended project has been documented in an Environmental Project Report that will be available on the project website for the public and other stakeholders to review on June 19, 2014. In the interim, all information pertaining to the project is available on the website for you to review www.hurontario-main.ca.

Quit frankly, this is pure BS on the letter I received, as it has question and answer I didn't asked. Most of all, it didn't deal with the walking distance from the side streets since that is where the ridership comes from in the first place. The average walking distance is between 650-1000m to current stops and will become 850-1500m for the LRT stops. It will be 40 plus years before there is any real walking distance on Hurontario itself to justify the 500m distance in the first place.

Changing between lines is a killer at Sq One as riders will spend the standard 15-20 minutes to bypass it when there is no more 103 or when it not running. This totally defeat the movement of riders from the north area of Sq One to Cooksville station that will force people to stay in the car than use transit.

Ridership for Mississauga has increase over the years for transit, but the model split still remains the same at 7%.

Unless Hurontario is rebuilt 100%, oil shortage, etc, there will never be a subway on it for at least 100 years, if not more. Some section could see the need for one, but small section at best.

 

[salsa]

The Notice of Completion of the Environmental Project Report (EPR) was officially issued today.

http://lrt-mississauga.brampton.ca/EN/Newsroom/Documents/Notice of Completion.pdf

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Definitely a post-election report dump.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

In the past I have been very critical of the northern part of this line....I have always seen it as overbuilt and some of the previous study assumptions seemed to have been cooked to get a desired result.

I have just never seen ridership in the northern part that was worthy/supportive of LRT as opposed to BRT.

People here have always come back at me with all the development potential the line will bring and how this site and that site in Brampton will produce jobs and higher density residential and that will drive ridership on the northern half that I was/am critical of.

I was skimming through the environmental report (I really have not intention of reading the whole thing....bless those that do ) and my eye was drawn to this nugget.

significant growth is anticipated along the corridor over the next two decades, with
population and employment forecast to increase by 59,000 persons and 31,500 jobs.
The Eglinton - Bristol and Mississauga Downtown core are forecast to experience close to half (48%) of the projected population growth within the study area. Employment growth is anticipated to be largely directed towards the Mississauga Employment Area and Mississauga Downtown, accounting for approximately 72% of forecast new jobs within the study area to 2031.

So with nearly half of the new population and nearly 3/4 of the new jobs happening south of Bristol to MCC.......I am left still wondering where all of the new riders north of that are coming from.

From Bristol to, say, Cooksville GO makes up about 20% of the length of this route.....and their own study shows that 50% of the new popluation and nearly 75% of the new jobs will be in that segment.....that does not leave very much population and/or employment intensification for the other 80% of the route and certainly does nothing to convince me that anyone actually thinks large scale development is expected in the northern portion I previously expressed concern over.

 

[doady]

In the past I have been very critical of the northern part of this line....I have always seen it as overbuilt and some of the previous study assumptions seemed to have been cooked to get a desired result.

I have just never seen ridership in the northern part that was worthy/supportive of LRT as opposed to BRT.

People here have always come back at me with all the development potential the line will bring and how this site and that site in Brampton will produce jobs and higher density residential and that will drive ridership on the northern half that I was/am critical of.

I was skimming through the environmental report (I really have not intention of reading the whole thing....bless those that do ) and my eye was drawn to this nugget.



So with nearly half of the new population and nearly 3/4 of the new jobs happening south of Bristol to MCC.......I am left still wondering where all of the new riders north of that are coming from.

From Bristol to, say, Cooksville GO makes up about 20% of the length of this route.....and their own study shows that 50% of the new popluation and nearly 75% of the new jobs will be in that segment.....that does not leave very much population and/or employment intensification for the other 80% of the route and certainly does nothing to convince me that anyone actually thinks large scale development is expected in the northern portion I previously expressed concern over.

New jobs in Cooksville can be worked by people outside Cooksville. New populations in Cooksville can work outside Cooksville. Otherwise they wouldn't need to use any transit, LRT or no.

New jobs and new population are not the only source of transit ridership growth. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a statistic called "ridership per capita", and Mississauga wouldn't have increased it's total ridership from 28 million to 34 million from 2005-2013, 20% growth, much faster than the population growth, in spite of a major recession.

Of course, jobs and population are concentrated in certain places, to restrict transit improvement based on those kind of percentages, that would mean no Yonge Line north of Bloor either. What kind of transit planning that.

 

[innsertnamehere]

recessions usually help transit ridership, remember.

I get the feeling most of the employment growth will actually occur between the 403 and 401 as well, instead of MCC. The recently widened 401 will really bring an incentive to build around there.

 

[doady]

recessions usually help transit ridership, remember.

I'm not sure if you're serious but almost every system in Canada lost ridership in 2009. Mississauga lost 6% ridership that year. Brampton lost 0.25%. The entire US lost 3.8% ridership that year. Less workers means less people commuting means less transit ridership.

Which was why I expressed my concern about Brampton Transit's stagnant ridership in 2014 in that thread. Ridership decline is an indicator of economic troubles.

 

[TOareaFan]

New jobs in Cooksville can be worked by people outside Cooksville. New populations in Cooksville can work outside Cooksville. Otherwise they wouldn't need to use any transit, LRT or no.

Perhaps, but this line is not being sold to the people of Brampton as a means to help get more of them out of Brampton to jobs in other places.....a big part of the pitch is the economic growth and development it will bring to Brampton......their own numbers seem to betray that as a lie.

Of course, jobs and population are concentrated in certain places, to restrict transit improvement based on those kind of percentages, that would mean no Yonge Line north of Bloor either. What kind of transit planning that.

If you are going to compare the Yonge north of Bloor to the Brampton and North Mississauga section of this corridor I fear we are discussing on entirely different levels.

 

[howl]

One of the big reasons for going to downtown Brampton is to connect to the GO station. If the LRT stops at the 407 then there will be no opportunity for people who work in the MCC to arrive on the GO train from Kitchener, Guelph, Georgetown or Mt.Pleasant and take the LRT to work. All those people will have to drive. Likewise if the LRT goes to the GO station people living in Cooksville can work in Kitchener or Guelph and get there by transit (assuming two-way all-day GO service eventually comes).

The same it true of the Eglinton LRT. Based on local ridership numbers the line should stop at Don Mills or Victoria Park, but it goes to Kennedy because local riders are not the only riders. There are also all the connecting riders.

The benefit to Downtown Brampton is all those people passing through and those connections to the west, east and south make it a great place to set up an office or store, and make it a great place to live.