I had the same thought, although that all depends on what gauge the WWLRT will end up being. The WWLRT will likely be the only LRT line that the Hurontario LRT has any interaction with, so it should be whatever gauge the WWLRT will be.
I had the same thought, although that all depends on what gauge the WWLRT will end up being. The WWLRT will likely be the only LRT line that the Hurontario LRT has any interaction with, so it should be whatever gauge the WWLRT will be.
drum118
Superstar
Unless TTC moves to duel end cars for the WWLRT and having a new yard and maintenance area, WWLRT will use what TTC has today. Since this line will have duel ends cars with centre platforms, standard gauge will be use.
East Lakeshore has more riders and will develop faster than the west, but doesn't meet standards to have LRT on it for at least 25 years.
nfitz
Superstar
Assuming that Huronatario ends up with the same vehicles as the other Metrolinx and Waterloo LRT lines, then isn't the incompatible power system a bigger issue? They can always regauge vehicles in a day or so, dealing with the power supply would be a challenge.
Good points. Although my rationale for having the WWLRT extended to Port Credit is based more on connectivity than ridership numbers. I see it much like the Mt. Dennis mobility hub in a sense.
ShonTron
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There are trams (and certainly many commuter and intercity trains) that run on two different electric power systems. (The closest example is the MTA Metro-North New Haven Line, whose rolling stock runs on 12.5 kV 60 Hz AC catenary and 700V DC third rail.)
LRVs on the Hurontario-Main Line will need battery packs or alternative power systems if plans to pacify NIMBYs (who sadly include Bill Davis) go ahead with Main Street running near Downtown Brampton.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Bombardier (the LRV manufacturer) has the PRIMOVE option (extra cost) for just such a circumstance. See link.
primove light rail
Liberating trams from overhead lines
In many ways, light rail vehicles are the ultimate form of eMobility. Yet despite being clean, silent and convenient, they have always been hampered by one disadvantage – catenaries. Catenary power systems are complex to install, demanding to maintain and and clutter the urban space with unattractive infrastructure.
Thanks to PRIMOVE contactless charging, trams can now run without any need for unsightly poles and overhead cables. The energy source is moved underground and charges the vehicle via inductive power transfer. It now becomes possible to integrate light rail systems into urban areas where conventional catenary networks are prohibited or unwelcome – such as city centres, parks, gardens and protected heritage sites. The cityscape is left untouched, minimising visual pollution and improving the overall appeal of the city.
Key benefits
System overview
Component features
Key benefits
Minimised visual pollution
Operational under all conditions
- Elimination of wires and poles – all components are hidden under the vehicle and beneath the track
- Installation is possible even in previously unsuitable areas such as heritage-protected sites
Reduced infrastructure
- Reliable even under adverse weather and ground conditions such as sand, snow or ice
- Compatible with all road surfaces or tracks
No compromise on performance
- Less land take needed than for catenary systems
- Less maintenance: no wear of pantographs and overhead lines, no risk of vandalism
- Same great performance as with catenary systems
- Reduction of energy consumption by up to 30% when combined with an energy storage solution
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System overview
Because PRIMOVE is a contactless energy transfer solution, the system operates reliably under all circumstances – even in adverse ground conditions involving sand, snow or ice. Its liberation from the constraints of overhead cables also gives urban planners and public transport operators more freedom and flexibility in designing their transport solutions.
Beyond dispensing with overhead infrastructure, the PRIMOVE system also offers a whole range of further advantages. The technology is simple to install in both new and existing lines as the components easily fit between the rails. Initial investment and maintenance costs are lowered, making the overall system highly competitive and efficient. The charging system could even be made compatible with road vehicles, enabling the same underground infrastructure to be used for recharging multiple modes of public transport.
For even higher levels of efficiency and performance, PRIMOVE technology can be combined with an energy storage solution. When mounted on a light rail vehicle, this device stores the energy released when braking for later use. The system reduces energy consumption by up to 30%, lowering both electricity costs and greenhouse gas emissions. Over short distances,PRIMOVE-equipped trams can also operate without having to recharge, further minimising infrastructure and installation costs.
Back to top
Component features
PRIMOVE wireless charging technology comprises two sets of components – wayside components that are buried underground and onboard components that are fitted onto the vehicle frame. Both sets are designed to enable maximum structural integration, as well as for energy transfer at high power and efficiency.
Wayside components
- Fully buried underground and can be covered with different materials like asphalt or concrete
- Primary cable segments provide the actual power transfer to the vehicle and are installed just under the road surface
- Magnetic shielding under the primary winding (magnetic layer) prevents electromagnetic interference
- The Vehicle Detection and PRIMOVE Segment Control (VDSC) cable senses when a PRIMOVE-equipped vehicle is above the segment and switches the segment on. Segments otherwise remain inactive to comply with electromagnetic interference protection requirements
- The Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition (SCADA) interface provides information for system control and diagnostics
- Inverters convert the DC supply voltage to the AC voltage used in the system.
- DC feed cables supply power to the inverters
Onboard components
- The PRIMOVE Power Receiver System consists of the pick-up together with a compensation condenser, which are both installed underneath the vehicle. They convert the magnetic field from the primary winding into alternating current
- Inverters convert the alternating current from the pick-up into direct current that powers and charges the vehicle
- Energy storage solution
- The Vehicle Detection and PRIMOVE Segment Control (VDSC) antenna detects cable segments and coordinates the on/off switching
TOareaFan
Superstar
I don't agree with the notion that the method of powering these vehicles would change DT Brampton at all....the batteries are a wasted expense.....but I really will never understand how so much anger is directed at the people of DT Brampton for voicing concern and looking for adjustments but the folks in PC seem to get off real easy having been successful in just excluding the line from their neighbourhood at all!
I am not one of the DT Brampton residents (my oppostion to this line is from another pov) and even though I disagree with them over their heritage concerns.....I respect their right to voice it.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
^ you oppose it because apparently there is nowhere to redevelop in this image:
ShonTron
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Because somehow if the LRT isn't built to Downtown Brampton you'll get all day GO train service? It doesn't work that way.
I don't know much about what opposition there was in Port Credit (and why it was cut back from Port St. to the GO Station) but it's a much bigger deal not running the LRT past Highway 407 or Shoppers World than three blocks in Port Credit, still serving the GO Station. False equivalency.
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TOareaFan
Superstar
^ you oppose it because apparently there is nowhere to redevelop in this image:
Everytime I respond to things like this I get accused of rehashing the same old stuff...so I won't. Particularly in this case as I intentionally was trying not to re-hash my own concerns...clearly, the majority here don't agree with me so I was not trying to derail the discussion.
My question today was why certain residents of a certain portion of this line get vilified over trying to amend it in their own community's interest and others don't for just getting it excluded from their community.
EDIT: it does not take much time on google to find reports/stories of community outrage when this was planned to go south of the GO station in PC.
drum118
Superstar
As I said before, until the issue with One Port Lands and the Esso lands are more clear than they are now, I support stopping the line at PC GO Station. The EA will have to be updated when it comes time to do that section.
There is a public meeting next week on the One Port Lands and we may have a better idea where we go next.
PC as well other parts of the line have strong NIMBY or becoming the BANANA phase these days. DT Brampton going wireless is a total waste of money for only 2 blocks. Seen places in Europe that has more historical building taller than Brampton with overhead. At the end of the day, wires will be there.
Why certain areas get things is because they howl the loudness, even if they are a small group and council not having the guts to tell them were to go in an election year.
I have had my share of run in with the PC BIA and the next time they tell me to keep my nose out of their ward business when I shop and support the area related to a city as a whole, I will tell them to put up a fence around them and pay full cost of running their area at all levels. Expect to be paying 100 times the current taxes to do it. You want a life style, then pay for it and not put it on the shoulders of everyone anymore. I pay more per square foot than those who live on nice big lots with 2,500 sq/ft homes, but my choice doing so.
Getting all day GO Service to Brampton has nothing to do with the LRT if it gets build or not, it is what best for the line and the bottom line. It will happen when it supposed to happen and it will not be next year. Until GO has the crews to do it, not going to happen sooner.
Currently, my walking distance is 635m to my current 19/103 stop, well beyond the 500m call for between stops. When the stop gets move to another location that see 2/3 less riders today than mine and next to no development that will match my stop that has more development area. I will be force to walk an extra 245m for a total of 880m as an able body person today. No idea what coming down the road for walking in the coming years, but my area has a lot of people with various walking issues today. It it take me 12.5 minutes to walk to the current stop and it more like 20 for them or more. Will be 15 minutes on opening day for me using the LRT.
End of the day, you need to beating the drums trying to get what you want and most likely will not happen at all at first. It has taken me years before I saw some of the changes that was needed for the system as a whole to happen, even though it had no impact on me at all or very little.
You need to go before council, deal with Metrolinx or who every to try to get what you want, as it not help you here crying for it when we have no say on your matter in the first place. Need to walk the talk.
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TOareaFan
Superstar
^thanks for your thoughts on PC....again though, it was not me that re-raised all day go in this discussion.
howl
Active Member
The important connectivity points are the GO stations. The historic section of Main Street in Brampton is like Mineola, not Port Credit. Not going north of Steeles would be like not going south of the QEW. Not taking the LRT to Port Street is like not running the LRT north of the Brampton GO for one extra stop. In other words as long as the LRT runs from GO station to GO station it doesn't matter if it goes past for one extra stop at this time.
denfromoakvillemilton
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But it's always something. The Crews, the tracks. How about we just get it done. I'm pretty sure lakeshore does not have more crews.
drum118
Superstar
Transport Canada has to change the FRA requirement from 2+ years to 41-52 weeks along the line of the EU who use 26-41 weeks for training engineers. How about pushing that?
The tracks from Union to Bramalea will be done early 2015. Upgrading the current 3 tracks to 4 outside of the pinch point will take time and requires to modify existing stations on the Halton Line. There is no timetable or funds at this time to do this.
You may get a peak train for the West Lakeshore first before the east section as there are more riders to support it with crews doing overtime.
Crews are Metrolinx/GO transit weak link at this time.
The last I heard, GO spare board is still 50% unfilled and doesn't help for putting service on line today, let alone any new service.
Of courses it is something since money doesn't grown on trees and doing work doesn't happen overnight. Poor planing or vision on GO part, let alone Metrolinx like the past.