Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

TOareaFan said:
of course the flip to this is why is ML so tied to the one route.....if the goal is to create a transit hub around the GO train station in downtown Brampton......why care so much about how it gets there? All of the alternative routes (no matter what you think of them) had in common one thing....just like the single route ML would support (or as it turned out the two routes they would support) had their terminus at the very same GO station/transit hub?

This whole "brampton turned down 'free' money" meme has to end.....the majority of Brampton council did not support how the LRT got from Steeles and Hurontario to Nelson and Hurontario.....but they all supported getting there.
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Yet they all voted against it in full knowledge the funding would be going elsewhere. They did give up free money, not because they opposed the LRT, but because they opposed the alignment that the province was willing to fund. Now the municipality will have to come up with the money for whatever alignment they end up choosing. Thus "giving up free money". Nobody is saying that Brampton voted against LRT in the city in any way, but rather that they turned down an LRT that was essentially going to be gifted to them, which they voted against with the knowledge that they would lose funding for it if they did.
 
There is no "flip" to this, the reasons Metrolinx was committed to the route has been stated numerous times throughout this thread: It was the most direct path to the DT terminal and alternative paths were weighed, measured and found wanting. This was a regional line that was supposed to connect Kitchener/Waterloo commuters to work in the Main/Hurontario Corridor (which has a lot major companies on it) with spin off effects for the downtown and Brampton as a whole.

What kind of spin off for the DT? Imagine, commuters (from K/W, curious about the DT) walking around the core for something to do, this would have had the necessary market effect of bringing in businesses that would have otherwise avoided the DT like some sort of leper. That would have cleared out the weaker (and really, useless) stores to make way for stronger and more vibrant businesses, a DT renaissance. What kind of spin off for Brampton? This would have laid the groundwork for further expansion of the LRT line going north. It would have lowered the barrier for an LRT line on Queen..............look how self-sabotage can ruin so much, ugh.

Brampton turned down free money, it's that simple, that meme is correct and it's a sad one at that.
 
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TOareaFan said:
of course the flip to this is why is ML so tied to the one route.....if the goal is to create a transit hub around the GO train station in downtown Brampton......why care so much about how it gets there? All of the alternative routes (no matter what you think of them) had in common one thing....just like the single route ML would support (or as it turned out the two routes they would support) had their terminus at the very same GO station/transit hub?

This whole "brampton turned down 'free' money" meme has to end.....the majority of Brampton council did not support how the LRT got from Steeles and Hurontario to Nelson and Hurontario.....but they all supported getting there.
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Brampton council did not support the fastest and most direct route. That's why Metrolinx was so tied to it. Brampton council turned down free money to achieve that.
 
^that is a new one....people from KW having been on train for >hour to get to an LRT to get them to work +/- 30 minutes away were going to interrupt their trip to wander around DT Brampton....really? that is the justification for building an LRT when even the inflated numbers in the study pointed squarely at BRT?

What LRT on Queen? ML has been very clearly using the words RT when talking about some off in the distance rapid transit for Queen......that RT (even though the ridership numbers will far exceed the inflated ridership numbers used to justify the HMLRT) will be BRT in its own lanes. I was never one of the "route is wrong" guys (I was always a "right route, wrong technology" guy) but I think in the course of time what will happen is that the 502 and 501 will end up upgraded to full BRT and that will end up being the right choice for Brampton and will be a much smoother integration/intersection of the Main and Queen RT solutions.
 
get on lrt to go home. Get to downtown brampton, you train doesn't come for another 15 mins. Go get a coffee.

Other spin off benefits include people simply using the LRT to get to downtown.
 
I think the kicker is that this will go ahead, and people that need to get between Brampton GO and the LRT will just put up and take a connecting bus anyway. We will be able to get raw data and first-hand observation of the ridership for this gap. If it is enough to support LRT, those busses will be crammed and slow, and people will be angry.
 
innsertnamehere said:
get on lrt to go home. Get to downtown brampton, you train doesn't come for another 15 mins. Go get a coffee.
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wouldn't most just get a coffee in the station? How long a gap in service would there have to be for someone to actually leave a station? Seems all the coffee providers in the world are trying set up shop inside Union station....that must tell us something about commuter behaviour.

innsertnamehere said:
Other spin off benefits include people simply using the LRT to get to downtown.
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This is where it gets really hard to believe. Where would these people be coming from? Where are the people that would jump on this LRT to get to DT Brampton and why are they not doing so now with the (really) marginally slower Zum?

Are not the most likely customers for DT Brampton people in Brampton?.......what tiny percentage of Bramptonians would have had access to this LRT?

The lack of LRT will have virtually no impact on DT Brampton....and having it would have an equally small impact.
 
The Main-Hurontario Line was supposed to be a regional line connecting the KW and Lakeshore GO, DT Brampton benefitting (however that may be) was secondary and would have been real. As to the statement regarding an LRT on Queen, that's a response to people wanting an LRT on that road rather than Main, which was a argument used by some on the "No" side.

You keep mentioning these supposed "inflated" numbers, where are you getting those?
 
Crimson Alchemist said:
The Main-Hurontario Line was supposed to be a regional line connecting the KW and Lakeshore GO, DT Brampton benefitting (however that may be) was secondary and would have been real. As to the statement regarding an LRT on Queen, that's a response to people wanting an LRT on that road rather than Main, which was a argument used by some on the "No" side.

You keep mentioning these supposed "inflated" numbers, where are you getting those?
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Not gonna bore the folks here that have read it all before....but if you flip back in this thread, there are several times where I have posted ML's own numbers which I referred to above.
 
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Why would you put an LRT on Queen when York Region is planning on building their VIVA Busways to Highway 50. It would be easier for Brampton buses to connect to the subway station in Vaughan using the viva bus rapid transit instead of an lrt here which would require a needless transfer.
 
Adjei said:
Why would you put an LRT on Queen when York Region is planning on building their VIVA Busways to Highway 50. It would be easier for Brampton buses to connect to the subway station in Vaughan using the viva bus rapid transit instead of an lrt here which would require a needless transfer.
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correct....so there will not be an LRT on Queen....and when you decide on BRT for Queen, serving Brampton with BRT on Main makes far more sense too.
 
TOareaFan said:
correct....so there will not be an LRT on Queen....and when you decide on BRT for Queen, serving Brampton with BRT on Main makes far more sense too.
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I don't really get what you are trying to say...

Metrolinx's Benefits Analysis seems to agree that BRT from downtown Brampton to downtown Vaughan shows the best benefit to cost ratio:

From a purely cost-benefit perspective, bus rapid transit from Downtown Brampton to Vaughan Metropolitan Centre (Option 1A), with the highest benefitcost ratio (BCR), demonstrates the greatest benefits per taxpayer dollar invested.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...cases/Benefits_Case-TTR_Brampton_Queen_RT.pdf
 
^ I am (and have been for some time) saying that the RT on Queen will be (and should be) BRT not LRT. Not sure what I have said that would be confusing on that point.

As it relates to HMLRT.....I think it is (another) reason why at least the Brampton portion of the route (if not the whole route) is better served by BRT than LRT.
 
TOareaFan said:
^ I am (and have been for some time) saying that the RT on Queen will be (and should be) BRT not LRT. Not sure what I have said that would be confusing on that point.

As it relates to HMLRT.....I think it is (another) reason why at least the Brampton portion of the route (if not the whole route) is better served by BRT than LRT.
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It is better to connect two train stations to each other which in this case should be Port Credit and Brampton GO Station plus you also connect to Mississauga City Centre. It doesn't make sense to the line somewhere and force a transfer. This is why ending the line at Shoppers World and forcing riders to tranfer from there to downtown Brampton makes no sense. Also if you look at Metrolinx's Benefit Analysis for the the HMLRT, it states that the LRT has the better cost to benefit ratio.

In most parts of the world transit lines are supposed to connect to transit hubs or stations together. I don't see why there is a need to force needless tranfers is so prevalent here. In Amsterdam for example from the airport, you can take a bus to different places and and they all go transit hubs or stations. Transit is about making different connections at important nodes not needless useless transfers.
 
Adjei said:
It is better to connect two train stations to each other which in this case should be Port Credit and Brampton GO Station plus you also connect to Mississauga City Centre. It doesn't make sense to the line somewhere and force a transfer. This is why ending the line at Shoppers World and forcing riders to tranfer from there to downtown Brampton makes no sense. Also if you look at Metrolinx's Benefit Analysis for the the HMLRT, it states that the LRT has the better cost to benefit ratio.
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When you look at the list of reasons they give comparing BRT and LRT, literally everyone that is measurable points to BRT.....then they outweigh those with a whole bunch of stuff that can't be measured but are perceived to be better with LRT.

EDIT: as for transfers....from an internal Brampton perspective there was always going to be a forced transfer anyway....anyone north of Nelson was going to have to transfer from the 502 to the LRT anyway....so all that terminating at Steeles does is move the transfer point and create a single ride bus trip for the vast majority of Brampton to that point.

Adjei said:
In most parts of the world transit lines are supposed to connect to transit hubs or stations together. I don't see why there is a need to force needless tranfers is so prevalent here. In Amsterdam for example from the airport, you can take a bus to different places and and they all go transit hubs or stations. Transit is about making different connections at important nodes not needless useless transfers.
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You what other city you can say that bolded part about......Toronto's Pearson Airport.
 
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