Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

EnviroTO said:
Why is running a tunnel the last 1.2km such a non-starter? It seems like a reasonable solution to keeping a direct route, protecting the character of the street, and speedy transit in an area that due to road width and intersections could experience congestion. I realize that it would be more money but at the same time the Weston grade separation was done for a much higher cost and for less benefit.
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Maybe the problem is that they are greatly inflating the cost of the underground LRT. I heard $380M. It would only need 2 stations and most likely they would shut down Main street and just build it with cut and cover.

There is no sense in firing up the TBM's for a 1 km section, when 2 cut-and-cover stations are needed anyways and if tunnelled, those stations would be much deeper, adding to construction cost and duration.

If Toronto could raise $900M for the Scarborough subway then Brampton should be able to raise the $150M or $200M to build this underground portion.
 
My biggest concerns with the tunnelling option are as follows:

1) It may cause some in Mississauga to start questioning why sections of that line aren't being tunnelled. I'm thinking specifically around Square One, which could probably benefit from a tunnel connecting a central underground terminal. Derailing one of the most unified LRT fronts in the GTA may be a bad idea.

2) The question would come up whether spending extra on the tunnel makes more sense than spending that amount extra to extend the LRT into Northern Brampton. The additional cost would be pretty similar. One option would marginally decrease travel time while appealing principally to NIMBYs, while the other option would greatly increase the utility of the line in Brampton. That just opens up a whole other can of worms, which may further bog down the project. Approve what's currently on the table, and then start looking at extensions.
 
I'm a firm believer in keeping the alignment as is & pushing further north. Also, as stated before, this isn't the beginning and ending for Brampton. The province has already stated a keen interest in another rapid transit corridor along Queen St. as well as 2 way all day Go trains up to Mount Pleasant. They're only stopping at Bramalea Go for the present because they have to work things out with CN to get further (North)west.
All of the other major route options have serious issues and have been discounted. see here:
http://www.brampton.ca/EN/residents...T/HMLRT-Alignment-Alternatives-2014-09-26.pdf. Some of the councillors are still touting these alternatives. They need to stop wasting time.
And between tunnelling & extending North to Bovaird or Sandalwood, I'd rather see the extra $380 million spent on extending Northward. If Brampton wants to stay connected to the rest of the GTA, Go trains are important. So is this LRT. The y aren't mutually exclusive. Both are integral. Both need to get done.

Just saying...
 
Watching the HMLRT debate this week was a big eye-opener for me. I grew up in Brampton but now live in Toronto and I had no idea Brampton council was so incompetent. I'm really struggling to decide if Brampton or Toronto councils are more incompetent.

If you had any doubt in your mind whatsoever that transit planning should be left to the experts, that doubt will be destroyed if you hear the arguments put forward by the councillors opposed to the at-grade Main St. route for the HMLRT. When one of them got confused about the expected ridership of the line at 35 million and exclaimed that the GTA doesn't have that large of a population, I thought that was the height of the stupidity of the debate. Another laughable moment was when one councillor who supported the at-grade route pointed out that Brampton has been at the table for rapid transit planning along Main Street for at least 14 years, laying bare the ridiculousness of the argument that Brampton has been "shut out" of the planning and needs a "made in Brampton" solution.

Then there was how the stupidity of the Brampton council was made obvious by Bruce McQuaid's professional and clear answers that showed why the at-grade plan was chosen and approved--councillors either were ignorant of Metrolinx's work or chose to put their heads in the sand.

I'm not even mentioning the ridiculousness around preserving the "heritage" of downtown Brampton that oh-so-ancient UN World Heritage site that it is.

That debate should be held up as the textbook example of why we shouldn't give elected officials a voice at the table when it comes to transit.

Ontario really has a systemic problem when amateur city politicians like this throw wrenches into soundly designed transit plans drawn up by the experts.

We are held hostage by idiots.
 
I thought tunneling under Main would be good idea but after reading that report, maybe not.

I think LRT north of GO should be considered very long term, if at all. Main LRT is obvious to connect to GO and to future Queen BRT/LRT, connect one Urban Growth Centre to another, but beyond that LRT seems pointless. It's a very average suburban corridor up there. Just look at it. There's nothing there that warrants LRT.
 
doady said:
I thought tunneling under Main would be good idea but after reading that report, maybe not.

I think LRT north of GO should be considered very long term, if at all. Main LRT is obvious to connect to GO and to future Queen BRT/LRT, connect one Urban Growth Centre to another, but beyond that LRT seems pointless. It's a very average suburban corridor up there. Just look at it. There's nothing there that warrants LRT.
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As weak as the ridership will be from Brampton GO southward, they will be far worse going north from there. Now is not the time to throw good money after bad.
 
pstogios said:
We are held hostage by idiots.
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Maybe the Councillors are acting rationally in a system where they only care about their few Square block area and the only one that cares about the entire City is given just one vote - the same as each "idiot".
 
This conversation reminds me of one of the opening passages of Jarett Walker's book Human Transit.

"Political leaders make good decisions when informed and caring citizens want them to. It's only when they sense that citizens have give up or don't care that they may let narrower interests carry the day. I see this pattern over and over."

A part of the problem is that the majority of Brampton citizens just don't care about this line, or any transit, at all. It is probably the most transit apathetic city in the GTA.
 
BurlOak said:
Maybe the Councillors are acting rationally in a system where they only care about their few Square block area and the only one that cares about the entire City is given just one vote - the same as each "idiot".
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Which is why projects with regional impacts should be made by the Region or the Province, not by local governments.
 
or have the people who represent a larger populace (i.e. the mayor) have more power than a local councillor.
 
howl said:
Which is why projects with regional impacts should be made by the Region or the Province, not by local governments.
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I fully 100% agree with this statement, if anything the last 20-30 years have shown that when it comes to regional transportation issues the municipal councillors should not be required to approve or disapprove of the line...the only things they should be concerned about is the type of bricks or pavement that should be used and the names of the stations - and even there we will still end up with dumb decisions...

Ontario as a province needs to get its act together with regards to making investments...and ensuring that the investment occurs on schedule and with as little waste as possible is a huge priority to citizens...every time municipal politicians dither on a line or push out time frames by six weeks we make Ontario less competitive...we also make it that much harder for business to function.

An easy fix is that for any rapid transit project that spans multiple city boundries is for the provincial government to make those projects by law not required to be approved or rejected by the municipality. In theory governments could still make a non-binding proposal or suggested alternates...but they would have to be submitted at a specific point of the project life-cycle - after which they would not be accepted. Likewise the cities could run their own "public input" sessions - but the province could in-house those at any point if they believed the municipality to not be acting in good faith.
 
WislaHD said:
This conversation reminds me of one of the opening passages of Jarett Walker's book Human Transit.

"Political leaders make good decisions when informed and caring citizens want them to. It's only when they sense that citizens have give up or don't care that they may let narrower interests carry the day. I see this pattern over and over."

A part of the problem is that the majority of Brampton citizens just don't care about this line, or any transit, at all. It is probably the most transit apathetic city in the GTA.
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Have you ever been to Durham Region? Burlington?
 
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