Kraylin
Active Member
There will never be "other" subways to connect to without building the first one...
There will never be "other" subways to connect to without building the first one...
Maybe Metrolinx will do to Brampton what they did to Toronto when it came to the Scarborough Subway: "This is how much we have for the project, and it's based on this option. If you want a different and more expensive option, you pay the difference."
TOareaFan
Superstar
Are the two situations the same?
Didn't the TTC plan the conversion to LRT....then conduct an EA on it...approve it and then get the province to pay for it? Only after that did they change their minds to subway.....so the province said, effectively, "you came to us with a project, we agreed to pay for it...now you are opting for a new more expensive plan. Our funding that we promised is still there but no more'
In this case, during the planning stages.....before the project is approved...at the first chance to vote on it....Brampton has said "we want to consider other options"....they have not said "no"...they have not asked the province to 'increase funding' (I don't think any has been allocated).
But, if the city of Brampton is going to pay higher costs because they want to amend the original "concept", how much more is Mississauga paying extra since the original concept was an LRT straight down the road ...and now it is going to loop around MCC/SQ1?
Have been thinking a fair bit about this thread lately as I have been experimenting with a new trip/route home.....occassionally I try to catch the 5:45 KW train......and when you just miss it there is a 1hr 5 minute wait till the next trip home.....so I have been experimenting with the GO to Port Credit then the Miway 103 bus to Derry then the BT #7 to home (plus or minus it saves about 5 minutes over waiting for that 6:50 train and taking the 501 Zum to the #7)....anyway, it is a small sample size of 4 or 5 trips but I have yet to be on a 103 that was more than 1/4 full at any point along the trip.....is that a fluke? Is ridership higher than that normally?
The timelines as to when the 2 cities decided to "Cadillac" it may differ, but the basic premise is the same: Metrolinx had a preferred option, and the municipalities chose to opt, or at least entertain, a more expensive option. The biggest difference is the sunk costs when it comes to design (with the Scarborough Subway clearly costing more in that regard).
drum118
Superstar
MT 2015 budget calls for infrastructure relocation starting in 2017 and taking 5 years to do. It also includes some design work in the city core.
We may know in March or June by Metrolinx when this line will be funded, as well in the spring budget by the Providence.
We may know in March or June by Metrolinx when this line will be funded, as well in the spring budget by the Providence.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Mississauga unveils its vision for financing the LRT
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...-money-to-pay-for-planned-16-billion-lrt.html
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...-money-to-pay-for-planned-16-billion-lrt.html
wopchop
Building Toronto
Hilarious. And another 4% property tax increase to pay for the infrastructure deficit? The devil is still collecting his due. I still remember how smug some of my friends were, when Mississauga was rolling in fat wads from greenfield developments. Time to face reality. Shit costs money. If you want to unlock the potential of Hurontario, and keep growing, cash is going to need to be found.
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mrxbombastic
Active Member
Prepare to see TIFs suddenly being touted along Hurontario as the solution to Mississauga's funding woes. I can nearly guarantee it wont be and that the province will likely pony up for capital costs while they stare Crombie down for her to pick up operating costs or see this thing go private.
Property Taxes and other fees will increase and Crombie's like many other mayors notion of inflationary tax increases will be taken out back and shot dead.
While many may have liked Hazel for her persona and low taxes. She along with the councils of her times have undoubtedly screwed this city. The true costs of unfettered sprawl and underinvestment in transit/services will soon appear. Hazel may have seen the error of her ways approaching her mayoralty deathbed and tried to reverse course but the ship is grounding and the tides aren't friendly.
I'm also curious as to what Brampton might do if Mississauga's situation doesn't appear to get any better. I think they play a large role on the political side in that maybe they pick up some extra proportion of the costs but they get their LRT their way, no questions asked.
Property Taxes and other fees will increase and Crombie's like many other mayors notion of inflationary tax increases will be taken out back and shot dead.
While many may have liked Hazel for her persona and low taxes. She along with the councils of her times have undoubtedly screwed this city. The true costs of unfettered sprawl and underinvestment in transit/services will soon appear. Hazel may have seen the error of her ways approaching her mayoralty deathbed and tried to reverse course but the ship is grounding and the tides aren't friendly.
I'm also curious as to what Brampton might do if Mississauga's situation doesn't appear to get any better. I think they play a large role on the political side in that maybe they pick up some extra proportion of the costs but they get their LRT their way, no questions asked.
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dowlingm
Senior Member
Where does Crombie think the money for her LaughTrack equivalent was going to come from?
salsa
Senior Member
Mississauga is a failed city in the making.
junctionist
Senior Member
Mississauga is going to be fine. There's so much wealth--the whole city is middle class or affluent. Now they're infilling it with condos and LRT to urbanize it. The city has plenty of small businesses--not just branch offices for multinational corporations. They have the tax base to maintain the city. It's also in the west end, and the west end always fares well.
mrxbombastic
Active Member
If they immediately start to pursue drastic intensification projects, pursue radical street side redevelopment of their super wide thoroughfares promoting maximized pedestrian orientation (I know Downtown 21 already speaks to this) and levy a Transit expansion specific property tax like our Scarb Subway tax. I think they may be able to escape this one yet. Brampton for that matter aint much better but they still have some greenfield left and have a financial window of opportunity to change. Mississauga is about to stare down the barrel of a shotgun.
In some area's and I'm thinking of Dundas just east of Hurontario, they should explore new financing mechanisms to promote condo/rental/mixed/office development. the space around Confederation parkway is mos apparent in my mind as ripe for redevelopment. Another thread has spoken to some development here but it needs more!
mrxbombastic
Active Member
I agree they they are an affluent city however I doubt the populace's ability to endorse large tax increases given many of their middle class are indeed being squeezed as are most around the world.
They have the bourgeois might to ensure that the city doesnt fall over but I find my self concerned with the cost to the masses of such pressures.
They have the bourgeois might to ensure that the city doesnt fall over but I find my self concerned with the cost to the masses of such pressures.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Is it really in Metrolinx's best interest not to fund the entire project at this point? I mean, most of the money for the studies has come from the Province already, and the Province has been gushing about this being a priority project under the Big Move. Do we really think the Province will let this die at this point? It's been known for a while now that Mississauga was not willing to put extra money into this project and was counting on Queens Park to pay for it. Despite that, Queens Park has kept this project moving forward.
If anything, I think QP will ditch the loop through City Centre, and tell Brampton to suck it up and get the line through Main Street. Any changes to this, would need to be paid for by each municipality.
If anything, I think QP will ditch the loop through City Centre, and tell Brampton to suck it up and get the line through Main Street. Any changes to this, would need to be paid for by each municipality.
drum118
Superstar
i fully agree that the loop either goes or the city pay for it. A large number of developers see no need for the loop in the first place. Same thing for Brampton.
Dundas & Hurontario is rip for development with 2 projects going before council starting with one in Feb another later this year.
The whole block Dundas to King-Hurontario to Confederation should be torn down and redevelop with a higher density than 18's with a number of existing businesses been relocated to the new development. Can be done in phases.
The east side to follow later.