innsertnamehere
Superstar
there will be 2 trains, one that runs straight up Hurontario. The other one will run from the MCC loop down to Port Credit. The one going to Brampton does in fact run straight up Hurontario.
there will be 2 trains, one that runs straight up Hurontario. The other one will run from the MCC loop down to Port Credit. The one going to Brampton does in fact run straight up Hurontario.
Well the good news from this is that Mississauga can now proceed unimpeded by what Brampton wants. Build the line to Steeles for now, and let Brampton sort it's stuff out. A delay in Brampton shouldn't cause a delay in Mississauga.
As for the alignment, I actually think Freeman's proposal to route it via Sheridan is actually the better route. Colleges/universities are huge trip generators, and bypassing something like that IMO is a mistake. I also don't really like the routing along the historic section of Main Street, mainly because of the lack of redevelopment opportunities on that section. You want an alignment that has the potential for redevelopment along it.
With that said, I don't think the ML alignment was a bad alignment per se, I just think that there are better options available. I just hope that if Brampton does eventually choose a more expensive option, that they don't redirect funding from Züm expansion to the LRT.
As for the alignment, I actually think Freeman's proposal to route it via Sheridan is actually the better route. Colleges/universities are huge trip generators, and bypassing something like that IMO is a mistake. I also don't really like the routing along the historic section of Main Street, mainly because of the lack of redevelopment opportunities on that section. You want an alignment that has the potential for redevelopment along it.
With that said, I don't think the ML alignment was a bad alignment per se, I just think that there are better options available. I just hope that if Brampton does eventually choose a more expensive option, that they don't redirect funding from Züm expansion to the LRT.
TOareaFan
Superstar
So there is one train straight up Hurontario from Port Credit to Brampton GO? Was not aware.
drum118
Superstar
Saids Who??
The plan by Mississauga calls for 2 separate lines terminating at Sq One at this time. The headway between the 2 lines will be different.
This whole thing has turn into a mess like I thought it would a few years ago with politics getting in the way.
If council thinks a loop around Sq One is going to draw office development, it not going to happen. Council with blind folders on and looking through rosy colour glass are miss the big picture with the loop that will draw very few new riders than today if a thing call Downtown does get built.
Brampton shot themselves in the foot killing the DT route and they need to visit Norfolk VA and other places where traffic and transit works in narrow spaces.
With this mess, let see how fast the LRT becomes a BRT.
Norfolk, VA Aug 03-14
nfitz
Superstar
LOL. Complete fail by Brampton. What a lost opportunity.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
The move by Brampton city council indicates that they'll bury the LRT line underground north of Nanwood into the downtown core at a nominal cost of $10 million extra.
howl
Active Member
Metrolinx will say to Brampton what they said to Toronto. "We'll pay for our preferred option only. If you want anything more you pay for it with your own tax dollars." In other words, the idea of the LRT running north of Steeles is dead. How many buses will they need every hour to shuttle people between Steeles and the GO station?
TOareaFan
Superstar
Presumably the Zum service in place now would run to Steeles instead of Church.....so for someone, north of Church headed to, say, SQ1 their new forced transfer would be at Steeles instead of Church.
As for cost, you really don't see a difference between a city giving input as to a route alignment and a city totally changing the type of transit?
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Edward
Senior Member
Brampton is making a big mistake.
TOareaFan
Superstar
If nothing else, it may change the focus of the upcoming municipal election. The 10 councillors voted unanimously on this motion. The mayor was not at the meeting and she has spoken in favour of the LRT (in the ML propsoed routing). One of the councillors voting against the ML route was Mr. Sanderson who happens to be running for Mayor. So do the pro-LRT folks in town consolidate behind the Mayor? How many are there in town that are pro-LRT? (as I have said before, this affects the lives of so few people in Brampton it just may be a non-issue in the election....even if the politicians try to focus on it).
TOareaFan
Superstar
Perhaps LRT from PC GO to SQ1 and BRT from SQ1 to Brampton GO.
I do agree, though, that the heritage and narrow streets are no reason to kill this....there are lots of examples of both working with LRT (most of my experience with this is in Dublin ....and it works very well).
There is somethings (frankly) that are laughable about the Heritage groups' opposition. Things like how the vibration of building a surface LRT will threaten the structural integrity of the old buildings....but that goes away, somehow, if we tunnel under the road? I am no engineer but one of those options scares me far more than the other.
Brampton councillors have played their cards.....lets see how a) the full council reacts ....b) how the electorate reacts in October and c) how ML reacts to those reactions. If Brampton is serious (post election) about not allowing this route and ML is serious that they need LRT all the way to the Brampton GO station for network/connectivity reasons....then we will see how much ML the province is willing to pay for that goal considering the very likely low ridership the Brampton section of this route will have.
End of the day it will come down to a cost/benefit (in dollar and political terms) analysis.
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cbrown2009
Active Member
Burying the LRT from Nanwood, say would not cost $10 million extra but more like $200-300 million or more extra as per the per km cost of subways in other nearby jurisdictions. Also, going underground is just as, if not more, disruptive as surface construction and even more time consuming. They're not going to TBM 1km. They'll have to use cut & cover methods. How disruptive would that be!!
As for alternative routing, anyone in a car driving from Four Corners to Shoppers World isn't diverting to Kennedy or Mclaughlin. They're driving straight down Main as it's the fastest, most direct route. Diverting the LRT puts it at a disadvantage to driving, which discourages ridership.
Besides, with the Go network improvements in the pipeline, why deliberately disconnect Brampton Go, as a mobility hub, from the network moving north-south? And how the hell would we then be thinking about LRT on Queen & not connect that with an LRT on Main at 4 Corners?? And is Sheridan College really enough of a trip generator for LRT??
I hear the NIMBYs & the heritage argument, but the LRT can actually add to that feel while boosting development potential in the DT itself for those struggling businesses.
This LRT on Main to DT Brampton makes sense in a lot of ways...
As for alternative routing, anyone in a car driving from Four Corners to Shoppers World isn't diverting to Kennedy or Mclaughlin. They're driving straight down Main as it's the fastest, most direct route. Diverting the LRT puts it at a disadvantage to driving, which discourages ridership.
Besides, with the Go network improvements in the pipeline, why deliberately disconnect Brampton Go, as a mobility hub, from the network moving north-south? And how the hell would we then be thinking about LRT on Queen & not connect that with an LRT on Main at 4 Corners?? And is Sheridan College really enough of a trip generator for LRT??
I hear the NIMBYs & the heritage argument, but the LRT can actually add to that feel while boosting development potential in the DT itself for those struggling businesses.
This LRT on Main to DT Brampton makes sense in a lot of ways...
TOareaFan
Superstar
I am reasonably confident that the cost of burying from Nanwood to Church would cost more than $10 million....presumably the study that looked at the 11 alternatives (can there really be 11 alternatives?) will also discuss the cost of those.
Are there a ton of cars starting their journey at Main and Queen and heading to Shoppers World? As for the comapritive advantage....but their own numbers the LRT is not a great pickup.
this is s big file but on page 22 they show that (assuming they build the LRT as they are planning) the travel time from Brampton GO to Steeles is 8 minutes by car and 7 minutes by LRT (page 22 of the pdf)
http://lrt-mississauga.brampton.ca/...entre_2/HLRT Boards_May_14_2013_Final_sm1.pdf
Is that what is gonna get people out of their cars? Is that what takes the modal split on that stretch from below 10% transit today to over 70% in 2031? Really 1 minute of travel time saved has that much impact?
As I said....ML will have to take this onboard and decide how important that connectivity is and how much it is worth. Is connectivity not achieved with BRT as well or is it only LRT that provides that?
Traditionally, students are large users of transit.
It makes sense in some ways....but people really need to back off on the boosting development argument. The stretch of Brampton this covers has very little/limited development potential.
ShonTron
Moderator
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Hopefully Brampton will elect a new mayor (and turf out some of Fennell's toadies while they're at it). Then sanity might prevail.
It's a shame that Bill Davis and a few dozen wealthy homeowners got their way (for now)
It's a shame that Bill Davis and a few dozen wealthy homeowners got their way (for now)
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TOareaFan
Superstar
The current Mayor, however, supports the LRT in the route that ML is proposing.
One of her main competitors was part of the group that voted for this motion against the current proposal and the other major competitor has been (as with most issues) non-commital and a bit vague.
lindajeffrey.ca said:
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