Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Under the plan I proposed to the Government in 2008 in a report, Phase 3 & 4 will to Orangeville would be by hwy 10 after the line gets to Mayfield in the 25-50 year plan. GO has taken OBRY route off the table at this time. I do see Phase 5 going to Own Sound using the old CP line route that will have to change from Orangeville at some far future date if at all.

drum118, I appreciate the insight and would love to learn a bit more. I have a farm on the old CP Owen Sound Sub near Flesherton, and have for a long time have wanted to see GO trains go to Orangeville and rails restored to Owen Sound. I would appreciate it if you could elaborate about phases 3,4 & 5 regarding Orangeville GO service, and regarding rail restoration to Owen Sound. Thanks!
 
Again, I have to chime in about the viability of running GO Trains on the OBRY line to Orangeville. It simply makes little sense. Getting a few peak-direction trains to Bolton (stopping at Woodbridge) makes far more sense in the short to medium term. I've been on the Credit Valley Explorer twice. It's a beautiful trip, especially in October. But it's slow, and Orangeville isn't that big of a place, with its out-of-town commuters headed to jobs in Brampton, Mississauga, Newmarket, Woodbridge and Toronto. The GO Train will be near empty all the way to Mayfield Road, where a stop there could intercept some commuters who might have boarded trains at Brampton or Mount Pleasant.

Even with upgrades, the grade from Cheltenham, up the Escarpment through Inglewood and Forks of Credit is slow and winding, much more than any other GO route apart from the underused Richmond Hill line south of York Mills Road. Highway 10 is usually free flowing into the 410 except in bad weather. Buses are fine, let's start running more of those, then perhaps look at a spur off the Kitchener Line to serve new stops at Bovaird Mayfield and King Street (by Brampton Airport) to intercept some commuters otherwise headed to Brampton or Mount Pleasant Stations.

Interestingly, by using Google Maps, it seems taking transit from Orangeville to Union Station would take you 2h 25mins today, whereas back in the day, up until the late 1960's, CP Rail ran DMU's from Orangeville to Union in 90mins (1.5h). GO DMUs could reduce travel times for Orangeville commuters, as well as provide new stations for Brampton, Alton, Inglewood, and Snelgrove. Other parts of Brampton could benefit from transit, without waiting for HMLRT phase 2. Route then could meet up with GO Kitchener or Milton Line, then connect to Union. Just a thought.
 
Interestingly, by using Google Maps, it seems taking transit from Orangeville to Union Station would take you 2h 25mins today, whereas back in the day, up until the late 1960's, CP Rail ran DMU's from Orangeville to Union in 90mins (1.5h). GO DMUs could reduce travel times for Orangeville commuters, as well as provide new stations for Brampton, Alton, Inglewood, and Snelgrove. Other parts of Brampton could benefit from transit, without waiting for HMLRT phase 2. Route then could meet up with GO Kitchener or Milton Line, then connect to Union. Just a thought.
Looks like it can get down to 96 min if you leave where there's GO train service on the Kitchener Line.

I'm going to have to agree with ShonTron though, there just aren't that many people doing the Orangeville-Toronto commute. Having a spur up to somewhere around Snelgrove, with GO bus further into Caledon and Orangeville makes more sense. There's about 700 people (NHS 2011) making the Orangeville-Toronto commute, and probably a fair bit work in parts of Toronto outside Downtown (only home to about 35% of Toronto's jobs). A Bolton line would do better, since Caledon sends 5300 commuters to Toronto and Vaughan sends 52,200. Admittedly parts of Vaughan and Caledon wouldn't be served by this line, so it might be more like 3,000 and 15,000 when you take that into account, still, that's a lot more than 700.

Brampton sends 45,000 to work in Toronto but maybe only around 20% of those (9,000) would be served by this extension.
 
Looks like it can get down to 96 min if you leave where there's GO train service on the Kitchener Line.

I'm going to have to agree with ShonTron though, there just aren't that many people doing the Orangeville-Toronto commute. Having a spur up to somewhere around Snelgrove, with GO bus further into Caledon and Orangeville makes more sense. There's about 700 people (NHS 2011) making the Orangeville-Toronto commute, and probably a fair bit work in parts of Toronto outside Downtown (only home to about 35% of Toronto's jobs). A Bolton line would do better, since Caledon sends 5300 commuters to Toronto and Vaughan sends 52,200. Admittedly parts of Vaughan and Caledon wouldn't be served by this line, so it might be more like 3,000 and 15,000 when you take that into account, still, that's a lot more than 700.

Brampton sends 45,000 to work in Toronto but maybe only around 20% of those (9,000) would be served by this extension.

It's a chicken and egg thing - if you make the commute easier you will get more people commuting. Building transit isn't just about serving existing needs, it's also about directing where future development will occur.
 
I personally think Mississauga should order the R1 LRV for the HMLRT - It really makes LRT look like the future, and is designed by a tank company. They will probably just go with Flexity Freedom however.
LINK: http://gizmodo.com/when-a-russian-tank-company-builds-a-streetcar-it-comes-1602547628
Are they built like a tank like TTC current fleet or are lighter??

Bench seats aren't going to cut it for most people and would be nice to see what the seating capacity will be for a 30m car as well not the crush load standards that get used all the time.

Since this will be a P3, we get another supplier not in Canada at this time.

The Berlin Flexity are better than the ones TTC is getting and still prefer the Stadler car over TTC or Ottawa ones.

Not sure how Thunder Bay will be able to handle more cars since they can't delivery ones for TTC on time yet. When one puts all their eggs in one basket, you are asking for trouble.

The big issue I have with GO expansion beyond the GTA is their ability to have sprawl leap frog the Green Belt after them and not deal with the issue that is causing it now. All you are doing is moving the problem from one area to another.

If more strict growth/land use is in place outside the GTA to allow GO to expand, then rail will play a different role than it does today. Even this LRT will change things down the road.
 
Toronto's getting the Flexity Freedom for its Transit City LRT network, which will be wider (at 2.65m) than the Flexity in Berlin, wider than Toronto's streetcars, and wider than Montréal's Metro cars.

Flexity Freedom seating.jpg


Likely the Hurontario-Main LRT will be the Bombardier Flexity Freedom, to allow for exchange of vehicles in an emergency.
 

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Toronto's getting the Flexity Freedom for its Transit City LRT network, which will be wider (at 2.85m) than the Flexity in Berlin, wider than Toronto's streetcars, and wider than Montréal's Metro cars.
2.65 metres according to your graphic and http://www.bombardier.com/en/transp...cles/light-rail-vehicles/flexity-freedom.html

Which is indeed 11 cm wider than the Toronto legacy streetcars (CLRV, Flexity, etc.) which are 2.54 m. Toronto's legacy vehicles are wider than many European vehicles ... which was part of the challenge in replacing them with an off-the-shelf design. The Flexity for TTC required some major customization to get the 2.54 m width, and meet the required turning radii.
 
Maybe the Hurontario LRVs should be the same as the new LRVs for the streetcar. They might extend the streetcar to Port Credit one day, you never know.
 
The big issue I have with GO expansion beyond the GTA is their ability to have sprawl leap frog the Green Belt after them and not deal with the issue that is causing it now. All you are doing is moving the problem from one area to another.

If more strict growth/land use is in place outside the GTA to allow GO to expand, then rail will play a different role than it does today. Even this LRT will change things down the road.
The Places to Grow Act actually covers places just outside the Greenbelt under density, intensification, and infill requirements. This includes Guelph, and the Region of Waterloo (which has probably one of the strictest regional plans which is getting battered by the OMB because it doesn't have "enough room for suburban subdivisions"). P2G is for the entire Greater Golden Horseshoe, so it extends to Niagara and up to Barrie too.


On Hurontario and shiny Russian LRVs, I thought the whole point of getting the Bombardier LRVs that were the same for Transit City as well as the 905 lines was the whole bulk order pricing, as well as sharing parts?
 
Maybe the Hurontario LRVs should be the same as the new LRVs for the streetcar. They might extend the streetcar to Port Credit one day, you never know.

Depends what Toronto vehicles you're talking about. You'd still have the issues with track gauge.
 
Depends what Toronto vehicles you're talking about. You'd still have the issues with track gauge.
Track gauge in a non issues as a starter since they can be change to meet what every gauge it must run on.

TTC bought standard gauge PCC from systems selling their and change the wheel gauge to TTC ones in matter of days. Same going the other way when TTC sold theirs.

There are RR in Europe that change gauges when you travel from one system to another while you are on it and only takes a few hours to do it.
 
Maybe the Hurontario LRVs should be the same as the new LRVs for the streetcar. They might extend the streetcar to Port Credit one day, you never know.

Toronto's new streetcar is the Bombardier Outlook, customized for the tight curves, steep inclines, and unique track gauge. Specially designed for the legacy streetcar network.
Toronto's new light rail vehicle for Transit City (IE. Eglinton LRT) is the Bombardier Freedom. Wider body width, cannot take the curves or inclines of downtown, standard track gauge. Off the shelf model, can be used Mississauga, Waterloo, or elsewhere.
 
Track gauge in a non issues as a starter since they can be change to meet what every gauge it must run on.

TTC bought standard gauge PCC from systems selling their and change the wheel gauge to TTC ones in matter of days. Same going the other way when TTC sold theirs.

There are RR in Europe that change gauges when you travel from one system to another while you are on it and only takes a few hours to do it.

I realize that. But extend the "streetcar" to Port Credit sounds like interlining.
 

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