Toronto Hullmark Centre | 167.94m | 45s | Tridel | Kirkor

In my first year urban planning class, NYCC was used as a good example of a suburban node. Maybe that was just due to proximity/relevance then.

Although it hasn't met its goals, especially regarding office space, I think it works pretty well as the downtown for North York.

How long ago was your first year of urban planning course,... I am guessing that was before amalgamation,.. when the city of North York existed on its own.

For a suburban node or urban centre to be successful,... it needs a good mix of residential, commercial and retail together,... NYCC does NOT have the office component! The vast majority of NYCC residents work outside of NYCC,... and thus tax the road and transit infrastructure. The net flow of traffic in morning rush hour is OUT of NYCC,... NYCC is a VERTICLE SLEEPING COMMUNITY! Compound that with the 401 acting as a huge barrier,.... basically if you live in NYCC and heading downtown, you either take 100% full capacity Yonge subway or drive,... drive, you need to go south of Yonge and through 401 interchange. And if you`re going any great distance east or west, public transit including the Sheppard Stubway line that goes nowhere is inadequate,... so you drive to 401,... to get there, you have to go south on Yonge,... This is why we have gridlock in NYCC,... everyone and their grandmother is heading south on Yonge towards 401 during morning rush hour!

Hullmark Centre in itself is a wasted opportunity. Yes, it combines residential, offices and retail in one site,... but NYCC have had 50 condos built within the last 15 years since amalgamation,.... and only one office tower. NYCC deperately needs more office towers,... problem is there`s no market for offices. Tridel Hullmark Centre sits at the south-east corner of Yonge-Sheppard (major arterial roads) and also on top of the interchange of two subway lines,... this is exactly where you want office buildings built,... NOT condos. We mind as well build residential condo towers on the south-east corner of Yonge-Bloor as well,... Oh, that`s already happening! Anyways,.... how many people can live on one floor in a residential condo VS how many people can work on one floor of an office,... it`s basically a 1 to 10 ratio. And office workers are much less likely to drive,.. putting in all office space at a prime subway interchange location like Yonge-Sheppard would promote public transit use more than anything else.
 
Note that an office tower is currently being marketed on the south-west corner of Sheppard and Yonge. 30ish floors if I remember correctly.
 
You think NYCC shouldn't have been a high density mobility hub?! Think of the alternative, which is to house all those people and businesses in car-dependant subdivisions or office parks. North York Centre is known across the continent as one of the most successful suburban downtowns. The Hullmark Centre competes far more effectively against them than do condos and offices downtown.

My beef is they increased the population density in NYCC without adding adequate infracture to support all those extra people. Say each condo has 1,000 residents,.... there's been about 50 new condos since amalgamation in NYCC,... that amounts to 50,000 new residents (oh, and that`s not even including conversion of postwar bungalows to higher density McMansions and townhouses),.... and most condo dwellers are young working type with 9-5 jobs,... meaning a lot of them are in the cars in rush hour traffic or on an already 100% full capacity Yonge subway train that is already packed when it leaves Yonge-Sheppard station.

You`re talking about narrowing streets to force people to use public transit or bike. People should have a choice in what mode of transportation they use. They shouldn`t be forced to use an inadequate transit system or bike in the winter. Yes, the TTC is inadequate,... travel anywhere in the world and you`ll see how inadequate the TTC is. TTC bus and streetcar rarely operate on-schedule and when they do arrive, you can expect bunching with the first one packed with standing room only,... subways are not much better with all their frequent service desruptions.

We already have the worst traffic congestion in North America,... mainly because idealistic politicians have been trying to force us out of our cars,... and onto an inadequately funded public transit system.

Wider roads ensures more growth and more room for not only cars, but also transit, cyclist and pedestrians. Wider roads allow for transit only Right Of Way bus/LRT lanes and bike lanes.

Look at those narrow downtown streets like King, Queen, Dundas or College,... they don't function well at all.


There certainly should have built more infrastructure, namely the Downtown Relief Line to deal with Yonge line overcrowding. Wider roads would only have made traffic worse by hampering alternative modes. They make walking less attractive by separating buildings, being noisy and hard to cross. They also make transit and cycling less attractive by generally being unpleasant.

BTW,.... there already is a DowntownReliefLine,.... it`s called the University-Spadina subway line,... it's runs basically parallel and is 0.6-4.4km to the west of the Yonge subway line. How much will another DRL cost,.... and it will service neighbourhoods that are already serviced by public transit. Sure these neighbourhoods will get faster and better transit,... but there are lots of neighbourhoods in Toronto that does not have adequate public transit. Priorities need to be set with a focus using tax dollar wisely.

The best way to alleviate overcrowding on the Yonge subway line is to make more efficient use of current infrastructure. Instead of having subway train run every 2.5-5 minutes,... Automatic Train Control will allow them to operate every 1.5-3 minutes,... thus increasing capacity. Most modern subway system in the world operate with 1-2 minutes between subways trains.


As someone who has used that trail numerous times to get from my house in Vaughan to NYCC, I can say it is fairly reasonable as a transport corridor. As you say, it would really benefit from better link into the Centre of NYCC, and that is exactly what I said we should build. Doris and Beecroft would be great as paired one-ways, with Beecroft being southbound and Doris being northbound. That way there would be space freed up for bike paths along either Yonge or both Beecroft and Doris.

It's true that the 401 poses a huge barrier for walking and cycling, but a huge portion of travel is in directions not affected by it.

If you`re all for narrow streets, high density condos, anti-cars, pro-transit, pro-cycling,..... why do you live in a house in Vaughan??? Vaughan is the exact opposite,... Vaughan is full of wide open streets, large homes on large lots suburban sprawl, poor public transit and not bike friendly,....

When you`re biking in from Vaughan, do you come down Beecroft or Doris,.... or god-forbid Yonge Street,..

One way streets along Doris and Beecroft is an interesting idea. But I don't think it'll fly in NYCC,... one way streets generally work well on downtown narrow streets where you need to restrict traffic flow because the streets are generally too narrow to handle two-way traffic adequately. The original intent of Doris and Beecroft was to provide a north-south artery to service the condos and offices in NYCC and would alleviate traffic on Yonge Street. One way streets along Doris and Beecroft would encourage traffic to use Yonge Street and promote a lot of east-west traffic,.... crossing Yonge Street.

Also, most condos are on east side of Yonge Street,... closer to Doris,.... and in the morning many of these condo dwellers are heading southbound to the 401,... thus southbound one way on Doris in AM,... and northbound Doris in PM,... but that would be confusing.

By getting rid of the street parking on Beecroft, there would be room for bike lanes. There`s already a number of green P parking facilities on Beecroft,... Since Doris does not have on street parking lanes, bike lanes might be possible by paving over those strip of land between the sidewalk and road which are currently covered with grass. Currently given the choice of one or the other,... the city is more in favour of on road bike lanes along Beecroft.


I don't see why they would need to widen that bridge. Avenue Road pretty much ends there, so there is no need for the big structure they have now. And bike lanes there would do nothing for NYCC since there's a huge valley separating the two.

North of Avenue Road, there`s some residential streets that leads to trails that goes down to the valley below,... it`s a nice recreational ride down there.

Since you`re a cyclist,.... and we don`t have many in NYCC,.... Not that you do, but if you did,.... If you lived in NYCC,... where would you bike to,.... seriously, downtown, midtown, down to the beach or waterfront, up to Vaughan,..... recreational or commuting,... Forget the fact that Yonge-401 is a suicide mission for cyclists,... and forget about the valley, especially having to ride up the valley,... if you lived in NYCC, where would you like to bike to,...
 
My beef is they increased the population density in NYCC without adding adequate infracture to support all those extra people. Say each condo has 1,000 residents,.... there's been about 50 new condos since amalgamation in NYCC,... that amounts to 50,000 new residents (oh, and that`s not even including conversion of postwar bungalows to higher density McMansions and townhouses),.... and most condo dwellers are young working type with 9-5 jobs,... meaning a lot of them are in the cars in rush hour traffic or on an already 100% full capacity Yonge subway train that is already packed when it leaves Yonge-Sheppard station.

True. So there is need for more transit capacity, and more incentive for people to bike (such as pleasant and safe bike paths).

You`re talking about narrowing streets to force people to use public transit or bike. People should have a choice in what mode of transportation they use. They shouldn`t be forced to use an inadequate transit system or bike in the winter. Yes, the TTC is inadequate,... travel anywhere in the world and you`ll see how inadequate the TTC is. TTC bus and streetcar rarely operate on-schedule and when they do arrive, you can expect bunching with the first one packed with standing room only,... subways are not much better with all their frequent service desruptions.

We already have the worst traffic congestion in North America,... mainly because idealistic politicians have been trying to force us out of our cars,... and onto an inadequately funded public transit system.

Wider roads ensures more growth and more room for not only cars, but also transit, cyclist and pedestrians. Wider roads allow for transit only Right Of Way bus/LRT lanes and bike lanes.

How is providing alternatives such as bike paths and subways "forcing" people to not drive? They're welcome to continue sitting in gridlock if they like. Traffic congestion is caused by cars, so clearly encouraging driving is not a good idea.

Your solution to the low service quality on the TTC is to widen roads? If you ask me, improving the service quality on the TTC would be a better way to deal with the low service quality on the TTC.

I don't think I ever proposed narrowing streets. I'm talking about reducing the fraction of streets devoted to cars, not changing the amount of street overall. We have wide streets, so lets put on those Transit ROWs and bike lanes you describe.

Look at those narrow downtown streets like King, Queen, Dundas or College,... they don't function well at all.

So would you like us to demolish the buildings beside them to widen the street? And I've been downtown and I can say they work better than the streets around NYCC despite being barely half their width.

BTW,.... there already is a DowntownReliefLine,.... it`s called the University-Spadina subway line,... it's runs basically parallel and is 0.6-4.4km to the west of the Yonge subway line. How much will another DRL cost,.... and it will service neighbourhoods that are already serviced by public transit. Sure these neighbourhoods will get faster and better transit,... but there are lots of neighbourhoods in Toronto that does not have adequate public transit. Priorities need to be set with a focus using tax dollar wisely.

The best way to alleviate overcrowding on the Yonge subway line is to make more efficient use of current infrastructure. Instead of having subway train run every 2.5-5 minutes,... Automatic Train Control will allow them to operate every 1.5-3 minutes,... thus increasing capacity. Most modern subway system in the world operate with 1-2 minutes between subways trains.

The University-Spadina is indeed a Downtown Relief line from 1978. But it is no longer enough, so we need another one.

The TTC is putting in ATC, but projections show that it alone is not sufficient to cope with demand, especially once you consider the added demand from the Eglinton Line and the Yonge Extension. We have such a colossal shortage of transit capacity that it takes a major investment like the DRL to get us back on track.

If you look at the cost of the DRL and compare it solely to the benefit of reduced crowding then it doesn't look very cost effective. But once you consider all the other benefits of the line (reduced travel time for many riders, increased transit modal share, increased property value, opening up huge swaths of the city for transit-oriented development, possibility to extend the Yonge Line etc), it looks like a pretty good deal.

If you`re all for narrow streets, high density condos, anti-cars, pro-transit, pro-cycling,..... why do you live in a house in Vaughan??? Vaughan is the exact opposite,... Vaughan is full of wide open streets, large homes on large lots suburban sprawl, poor public transit and not bike friendly,....

I don't actually live in Vaughan. I live in an apartment in Waterloo. My "house in Vaughan" is actually my parents house, where I have a bike to use when I'm in town. The reason they live in Vaughan is actually so that they live close enough to their workplaces to be able to walk or bike.

When you`re biking in from Vaughan, do you come down Beecroft or Doris,.... or god-forbid Yonge Street,..

I usually go down Beecroft because that's where the Finch bike path ends, although I often end up on Yonge Street because that's where many destinations are.

One way streets along Doris and Beecroft is an interesting idea. But I don't think it'll fly in NYCC,... one way streets generally work well on downtown narrow streets where you need to restrict traffic flow because the streets are generally too narrow to handle two-way traffic adequately. The original intent of Doris and Beecroft was to provide a north-south artery to service the condos and offices in NYCC and would alleviate traffic on Yonge Street. One way streets along Doris and Beecroft would encourage traffic to use Yonge Street and promote a lot of east-west traffic,.... crossing Yonge Street.

I don't think it would increase traffic on Yonge Street. In fact, the whole point of the idea is to do the opposite.
Yes, drivers originating from NYCC condos would use Yonge, but drivers originating outside NYCC would divert around NYCC using Beecroft & Doris, since they would be much faster than Yonge thanks to coordinated traffic lights (something practically impossible on two-way streets).

If you lived in NYCC,... where would you bike to,.... seriously, downtown, midtown, down to the beach or waterfront, up to Vaughan,..... recreational or commuting,... Forget the fact that Yonge-401 is a suicide mission for cyclists,... and forget about the valley, especially having to ride up the valley,... if you lived in NYCC, where would you like to bike to,...

That's a very good point. Even though NYCC is easily accessible by bicycle from its suburbs (except those on the other side of the 401), most major destinations are not easily accessible from NYCC. There is still a fair amount of potential for cycling within NYCC. It's 3km from one end to the other, and that would be quite a lengthy walk. Bike paths along Beecroft and Doris, or along Yonge would pretty well cover all trips within NYCC.
 
I cycled from The Junction to NYCC earlier this year using mostly side streets beyond a bit of St. Clair and Eglinton. It took an average of 1:05 per direction. No side streets cross the 401, so I took Bathurst, which only has one ramp to the 401 and no slip lanes. I never felt unsafe.
 
Hullmark south tower growing taller:

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Contributing to city wall (a snap form Park Home and Yonge):

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Hullmark Centre Update


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Nice big update today guys, two video updates and some photo updates on Hullmark Centre up here in North York Centre. Taken this morning with my cellphones (Galaxy Nexus, and iPhone4s) for your viewing pleasure. The first update is from the eastern side of Yonge Street looking towards Hullmark Centre directly south.
 
It's been a while guys and I have moved from my old location to Yonge and Sheppard. Here is a perspective that many will probably never see as they wouldn't venture into the residential side.

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A look at the nice wall that is slowly being built in front of me :(

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Cheers.
 
I'm not a fan of this so far. The cladding looks awful. Tridel really needs to dump Kirkor.
 

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