Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

The GTA is just short of 7 million, and accelerating with the Liberal's increased immigration policies. The Toronto CMA isn't really an accurate representation of the GTA since it skips out on Burlington, Whitby, Oshawa, etc. The GTA was at 6.4 million in 2016, and has been growing at around 130,000 people a year, so I imagine its around 6.9 million today.
 
We should have continuous heavy and light rail expansion. Don’t even subcontract. Develop and keep soup to nuts building capacity in-house. Metrolinx should be all over this since we’ve seen enough of Bombardier’s streetcar delivery delays and SNC bungling. We should be building a network for 10 million people, not struggling to maintain one built for two million. I can’t believe projects like this LRT are being cancelled. I’m surprised that Ford, who seemed to want to hang his legacy on the Ontario Line and Toronto transit, is blowing this. He lost the Toronto mayoral race but won the Premier’s chair, so build infrastructure for the cities of Ontario.
 
gibsonm said:
We should have continuous heavy and light rail expansion. Don’t even subcontract. Develop and keep soup to nuts building capacity in-house. Metrolinx should be all over this since we’ve seen enough of Bombardier’s streetcar delivery delays and SNC bungling. We should be building a network for 10 million people, not struggling to maintain one built for two million. I can’t believe projects like this LRT are being cancelled. I’m surprised that Ford, who seemed to want to hang his legacy on the Ontario Line and Toronto transit, is blowing this. He lost the Toronto mayoral race but won the Premier’s chair, so build infrastructure for the cities of Ontario.
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Not cancelled, deferred. The billion dollars which the City of Hamilton is still on record to receive can still build rapid transit.

If I were in charge, I'd go for that planned James St LRT spur line project from the waterfront to MacNab and Hunter GO (maybe go one stop further south to St Joseph's Charlton Hositpal). Whatever's left could be invested in dedicated BRT ROW along King St which can be future-proofed for LRT conversion someday down the road.
 
gibsonm said:
We should have continuous heavy and light rail expansion. Don’t even subcontract. Develop and keep soup to nuts building capacity in-house. Metrolinx should be all over this since we’ve seen enough of Bombardier’s streetcar delivery delays and SNC bungling. We should be building a network for 10 million people, not struggling to maintain one built for two million. I can’t believe projects like this LRT are being cancelled. I’m surprised that Ford, who seemed to want to hang his legacy on the Ontario Line and Toronto transit, is blowing this. He lost the Toronto mayoral race but won the Premier’s chair, so build infrastructure for the cities of Ontario.
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It amazes me that the projects are not shovel ready so that once one construction is done, the next begins. Mind you, this would need sold financial backing, which the city, province and federal governments won't do.

This should not just be done in Toronto, or the GTA, but everywhere that has higher order transit.
 
innsertnamehere said:
The GTA is just short of 7 million, and accelerating with the Liberal's increased immigration policies. The Toronto CMA isn't really an accurate representation of the GTA since it skips out on Burlington, Whitby, Oshawa, etc. The GTA was at 6.4 million in 2016, and has been growing at around 130,000 people a year, so I imagine its around 6.9 million today.
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(The following is a longer post, but it does get to the point in the end)

To further amplify insertnamehere's post, there are multiple levels of aggregation, which servers to muddy the waters a bit when it comes to population figures. The narrowest level would be the City of Toronto, followed by the Toronto CMA, then the GTA or Greater Toronto Area, and finally the GTHA or Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area.

Toronto population - the population within the actual boundaries of the City, and is officially determined only periodically, as part of the periodic Statistics Canada census - to be done next in 2021. Informal updates, based on sampled growth rates, are published periodically by various sources, but are generally only approximations of the actual population of the City - currently estimated to be just under 3 million people

Toronto CMA population - the Toronto Census Metropolitan Area broadly overlaps with the GTA, however it does not include a number of areas which would generally be considered as part of the GTA - excluding Whitby, Oshawa, Burlington, while on the other hand, the CMA includes some areas which are not generally considered to be part of the GTA. The complete list of areas which constitute the Toronto CMA can be found here:

Focus on Geography Series, 2011 Census - Census metropolitan area of Toronto

www12.statcan.gc.ca www12.statcan.gc.ca

The interesting thing is that while most population estimates are derived from the Statistics Canada periodic census data, with estimated growth rate adjustments applied to bring the data more up to date, population figures for the Toronto CMA are updated by Statistics Canada every month, as part of the regular Labour Force Survey. The data is prepared on a sampling basis, not a complete census, so it is not 100% precise, but as it is being done monthly, individual instances of sampling errors - the outliers - are fairly obvious and can be discounted.

According to the most recent data, the Toronto CMA population, as of November 2019, was 5,620,000, with a year over year increase from November 2018, of 145,500, or a percentage year over year growth rate of 2.7%.

A summary of the month by month data (in thousands) for Toronto, since Statistics Canada started providing the detailed break-outs for the Toronto (as well as the Montreal and Vancouver) CMAs is as follows:

Labour ForceEmployment UnemploymentUnemployment RateToronto CMA Population CMA Population Prior Year (Y/Y)Population ChangeChange %
Nov 20193,752.93,534.7218.25.8%5,620.05,474.5145.52.7%
Oct 20193,718.63,509.3209.45.6%5,609.55,464.2145.32.7%
Sept 20193,755.23,547.9207.35.5%5,597.75,453.4144.32.6%
Aug 20193,735.63,513.9221.75.9%5,583.25,443.4139.82.6%
July 20193,729.03,506.2222.76.0%5,571.35,432.4138.92.6%
June 20193,679.53,465.5210.45.7%5,555.65,418.2137.42.5%
May 20193,674.13,476.3197.85.4%5,543.35,407.1136.22.5%
Apr 20193,701.43,456.4245.06.6%5,532.25,396.3135.92.5%
Mar 20193,685.73,436.5249.26.8%5,518.45,383.3135.12.5%
Feb 20193,675.63,434.7240.96.6%5,508.45,372.6135.82.5%
Jan 20193,639.53,405.3234.26.4%5,499.15,363.1136.02.5%
Dec 20183,592.53,385.4207.15.8%5,484.95,349.5135.42.5%
Nov 20183,604.03,383.7220.46.1%5,474.55,340.3134.22.5%
Oct 20183,589.23,364.7224.56.3%5,464.25,331.0133.22.5%
Sept 20183,558.33,332.2226.16.4%5,453.45,321.5131.92.5%
Aug 20183,530.43,309.2221.26.3%5,443.45,312.1131.32.5%
July 20183,586.13,387.3198.85.5%5,432.45,300.4132.02.5%
June 20183,582.43,354.5228.06.4%5,418.25,290.7127.52.4%
May 20183,564.03,340.8223.36.3%5,407.15,281.4125.72.4%
April 20183,547.03,325.7221.36.2%5,396.3

Unfortunately, comparable data for the Hamilton CMA is not currently being provided by Statistics Canada.
 
Also not taken into consideration by Doug Ford, and his minions, is the GO Train extension.

niagara-map.jpg

From link.

While small in comparison with Toronto's Union Station, the Hamilton stations will still provide even more passengers, should they transfer onto or from the proposed LRT.

Why do all the GO Transit construction around Hamilton, if Doug Ford is stuck in the past.

See link.
 
Hopkins123 said:
Not cancelled, deferred. The billion dollars which the City of Hamilton is still on record to receive can still build rapid transit.

If I were in charge, I'd go for that planned James St LRT spur line project from the waterfront to MacNab and Hunter GO (maybe go one stop further south to St Joseph's Charlton Hositpal). Whatever's left could be invested in dedicated BRT ROW along King St which can be future-proofed for LRT conversion someday down the road.
Click to expand...

So with the $1 Billion you'd build a short streetcar line between the two GO stations? That's a complete waste of money, and it would ignore the poor record of most modern streetcar lines in the US. What purpose would it serve, apart from some checkmark urbanism?

I'd suggest permanent dedicated bus lanes, at least between the 403 and Downtown Hamilton, on both King and Main (though the city quickly got rid of it when it was last tried) and get cracking on the "BLAST" plan - starting with the B and A lines, with frequent, 7-day a week service on both, with additional runs between Mohawk, Downtown, and McMaster). Follow the Brampton Transit model to build ridership back up, but with dedicated, separated lanes in the most congested areas. That, and speed up GO Transit rail improvements.

We love spending money on capital (Viva Next in York Region), but don't care for spending on operations. That's why York Region Transit is awful. That's why Hamilton's record on transit is really quite poor, and why it has the lowest ridership growth of any GTHA system in the last decade.
 
ShonTron said:
So with the $1 Billion you'd build a short streetcar line between the two GO stations? That's a complete waste of money, and it would ignore the poor record of most modern streetcar lines in the US. What purpose would it serve, apart from some checkmark urbanism?

I'd suggest permanent dedicated bus lanes, at least between the 403 and Downtown Hamilton, on both King and Main (though the city quickly got rid of it when it was last tried) and get cracking on the "BLAST" plan - starting with the B and A lines, with frequent, 7-day a week service on both, with additional runs between Mohawk, Downtown, and McMaster). Follow the Brampton Transit model to build ridership back up, but with dedicated, separated lanes in the most congested areas. That, and speed up GO Transit rail improvements.

We love spending money on capital (Viva Next in York Region), but don't care for spending on operations. That's why York Region Transit is awful. That's why Hamilton's record on transit is really quite poor, and why it has the lowest ridership growth of any GTHA system in the last decade.
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Actually, his idea isn't that bad. It does go through the downtown core. It would help with showing the city and the province that serious investment is needed.
 
micheal_can said:
Actually, his idea isn't that bad. It does go through the downtown core. It would help with showing the city and the province that serious investment is needed.
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There isn't really a place for an MSF along that alignment though, so you would need to build a pretty long service track in order to reach the line. Also, building such a facility for a relatively small fleet like that probably wouldn't be worth it.
 
gweed123 said:
There isn't really a place for an MSF along that alignment though, so you would need to build a pretty long service track in order to reach the line. Also, building such a facility for a relatively small fleet like that probably wouldn't be worth it.
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Then build the line to the nearest place for an MSF.
I get it, people are pissed that it is cancelled. Instead of saying how other ideas won't work, why now come up with solutions that will make them work.
 
Busways, really? What a second rate option. I suppose they could add more one-way streets and close a few of the bus routes, do some blockbusting and build an expressway. I think generally the proponents of busways would seldom take a bus, if ever. Do you think Skelly would go near one? That’s the problem right there. Too many MPP’s and Hamilton City Council members have no real interest in making the lower downtown more liveable. They would only ever live on the mountain. For them it’s about keeping taxes down and pedestrians out of the way. Only if this contingent gets out of the way can Hamilton reach its potential. I suggest asking the feds for help and building the LRT as originally planned. There was a time not so long ago when there were questions as to which would become the more significant centre Toronto or Hamilton. No one asks those questions anymore.
 
ShonTron said:
So with the $1 Billion you'd build a short streetcar line between the two GO stations? That's a complete waste of money, and it would ignore the poor record of most modern streetcar lines in the US. What purpose would it serve, apart from some checkmark urbanism?

I'd suggest permanent dedicated bus lanes, at least between the 403 and Downtown Hamilton, on both King and Main (though the city quickly got rid of it when it was last tried) and get cracking on the "BLAST" plan - starting with the B and A lines, with frequent, 7-day a week service on both, with additional runs between Mohawk, Downtown, and McMaster). Follow the Brampton Transit model to build ridership back up, but with dedicated, separated lanes in the most congested areas. That, and speed up GO Transit rail improvements.

We love spending money on capital (Viva Next in York Region), but don't care for spending on operations. That's why York Region Transit is awful. That's why Hamilton's record on transit is really quite poor, and why it has the lowest ridership growth of any GTHA system in the last decade.
Click to expand...

Dedicated bus lanes would be fine for yesterday's population, not for the future. Hamilton is in Ontario, not in the USA (unless Doug has his way). With densification, buses would not provide the capacity.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Dedicated bus lanes would be fine for yesterday's population, not for the future. Hamilton is in Ontario, not in the USA (unless Doug has his way). With densification, buses would not provide the capacity.
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If/when the buses reach their capacity, there will be a stronger case to replace them with light rail.

Bus lanes may not be the ideal solution, but they will help the riders travel faster.
 
Rainforest said:
If/when the buses reach their capacity, there will be a stronger case to replace them with light rail.

Bus lanes may not be the ideal solution, but they will help the riders travel faster.
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Look at what happened in Ottawa with their Confederation Line. It is a mess. Still! And the line is open.

Build the most you can and then add on to it.If they will only fund half the plan, the build it, use it, and when funds become available, build more.
 
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