Markham GTA Centre | ?m | ?s | GTA S. and E. | BBB

[valkoholic]

And Yes...maybe Markham should write a book. Downtown Markham will one day be an example of world-class urban design, economic development, and environmental sustainability. It will merge economic growth with open park spaces and public transit. People will look to us and ask..."how did you do it?"

World-class environmental sustainability can't happen on greenfields by definition. By almost every possible measure of sustainability an office building downtwon Toronto will be more sustainable than one in Markham. The best Markham can ever hope for is 'slightly better than Richmond Hill', which would make for a lousy book.

 

[Markham VIP]

World-class environmental sustainability can't happen on greenfields by definition. By almost every possible measure of sustainability an office building downtwon Toronto will be more sustainable than one in Markham. The best Markham can ever hope for is 'slightly better than Richmond Hill', which would make for a lousy book.

Please explain the following comment, "by almost every possible measure of sustainability an office building in downtown Toronto will be more sustainable than one in Markham". What measures of sustainability are you referring to?

And the whole purpose to Downtown Markham is environmental sustainability my friend. In Markham, since the 90's we've had a problem that our growth was resulting in a decrease of available lands to build on. Unlike other municipalities, we don’t want to just grow and grow and expand outwards and use up all of our precious agricultural lands and bulldoze through Markham’s natural environment. However, on the other hand, we don’t want to stifle our future growth either. So what do we do? Our solution is Markham Centre/Downtown Markham, a mass development project in the middle of Markham, where all the future economic development and growth of the Town will be concentrated. It is our way to address the issues of environmental/agricultural preservation, while at the same time continuing to grow, create jobs, and build a healthy economy.

Downtown Markham is, by definition, environmentally sustainable.

 

[valkoholic]

Let's see.

transportation - downtown Toronto 20% drive, Markham will be lucky to hit 90% (Beaver Creek is 95%).
density - buildings downtown are denser than in markham, less land is used.
greenfield - like it or not, downtown markham is greenfield, buildings downton aren't

Not sure how else to explain it. I'm aware of the problems sprawl communities have, but I'm also aware of how markham, oakville, pickering etc. are now building new sprawl but with terms like sustainability, tdm, transit-first, complete-streets, etc. in order to help justify another round of crap.

Say you need it, say it's better than you've done before before, but don't brag about it being a world-class sustainable development.

 

[TOareaFan]

Yes people often go to games and events "together" but they are not always arriving from the same place or returning to the same place afterwards.

Last concert I drove to.....me and 3 friends....so, yes, the 4 of us were going together. But we arrived from 4 different places and even though two of the people were married to each other we left in 4 separate cars.

The actual split will vary with the day of the week, type of event, etc. But 50% is (IMO) wildly unrealistic and a split in car occupancy is going to be a lot closer to 2 per car than you think.

 

[Markham VIP]

Let's see.

transportation - downtown Toronto 20% drive, Markham will be lucky to hit 90% (Beaver Creek is 95%).
density - buildings downtown are denser than in markham, less land is used.
greenfield - like it or not, downtown markham is greenfield, buildings downton aren't

Not sure how else to explain it. I'm aware of the problems sprawl communities have, but I'm also aware of how markham, oakville, pickering etc. are now building new sprawl but with terms like sustainability, tdm, transit-first, complete-streets, etc. in order to help justify another round of crap.

Say you need it, say it's better than you've done before before, but don't brag about it being a world-class sustainable development.

Downtown Markham is not just "new sprawl" my friend...nor is it "another round of crap"...it will be something special one day, a beacon of economic growth in the GTA. It will be a shining new downtown core north of Toronto....but without all the bumbs, prostitutes, drug addicts, psychos, and without the smell of garbage either. It will have a european-feel with cafes and patios along the streets. Have you ever been on Main Street Unionville? Well multiply that by 100 and that will be Downtown Markham. You can doubt it all you want today...everyone is entitled to their option. But one day, you are going to be walking down Enterprise Blvd, in the heart of Downtown Markham, and you are going to say to yourself..."wow".

As for the transit use...I believe that more people will take transit than you think. I think that transit usage will be promoted as apart of Downtown Markham and people will be encourage to take the GO or VIVA. This isn't pickering or oakville....it's MARKHAM!!! It's right in the middle of the GTA! The new arena is located right beside Unionville GO STATION...can you explain to me why people can't just take the train from Union Station?...Isn't it like 10 minutes or so?
Downtown Markham will also incorporate rapid-transit services along HWY 7 all the way to Yonge. Moreover, future transit expansion plans in York Region include extending the Yonge Subway line from Finch Station to Hwy 7. If that happens it will also encourage transit usage.

But in the mean time....why can't people just take the train from Union Station? Or take VIVA rapid-transit services from Finch Station? Once people get over the mental-hurdle of taking transit to the suburbs, they will realize that it is possible and transit usage will increase.

As for environmental sustainability....i suggest you read the following article:
http://www.downtownmarkham.ca/pdfs/in_the_news/Goinggreenturnsgold.pdf

 

[Markham VIP]

Yes people often go to games and events "together" but they are not always arriving from the same place or returning to the same place afterwards.

Last concert I drove to.....me and 3 friends....so, yes, the 4 of us were going together. But we arrived from 4 different places and even though two of the people were married to each other we left in 4 separate cars.

The actual split will vary with the day of the week, type of event, etc. But 50% is (IMO) wildly unrealistic and a split in car occupancy is going to be a lot closer to 2 per car than you think.

I don't get it....if the 4 of you went together....how did you leave in 4 different cars?

 

[taal]

Friend, the four individuals do not live together, rather just know each other, and hence will will sit together at the event but commute using their own vehicles ...

 

[Markham VIP]

Friend, the four individuals do not live together, rather just know each other, and hence will will sit together at the event but commute using their own vehicles ...

Ah...i get it.
When he said, "the 4 of us were going together", it confused me.

This is a rare scenario....most of the time 4 people sitting at an event together do not each drive there individually in their own cars and park their cars there. Does it happen? Sure. Do more than 5-10% of people at an event drive there on their own? I don't think so.....

 

[TOareaFan]

It's right in the middle of the GTA! The new arena is located right beside Unionville GO STATION...can you explain to me why people can't just take the train from Union Station?...Isn't it like 10 minutes or so?

I really admire your enthusiasm for your community but some of your comments really show it as nothing more than that.

People will only use the GO Train from Union if it is where they are going back to later. Use me as an example.....I am a fairly typical downtown worker....I sometimes use GO and sometimes drive.....but I live on a different line. If I was going to a game or show at your new rink there is no way I would take the train from Union to Unionville (38 minutes BTW) just so I can retrace that path and still be nowhere close to home (or face some multi-system.....multiple-transfer....many stop.....long bus ride home). On those days I would definitely drive to work and drive to the event after work. Even today I have friends/co-workers who live in Oakville that commute by train every day BUT only drive when they are going to the ACC after work because they want the flexibility post-event that transit does not offer.....if that is happening now at transit friendly ACC imagine your new GTA Centre!

If it gets built it will be lovely....but they had better plan for a lot more than 4k cars a night.

 

[TOareaFan]

Ah...i get it.
When he said, "the 4 of us were going together", it confused me.

This is a rare scenario....most of the time 4 people sitting at an event together do not each drive there individually in their own cars and park their cars there. Does it happen? Sure. Do more than 5-10% of people at an event drive there on their own? I don't think so.....

My bet is that it happens more than you think and certainly more for sports than concerts. Bob calls john.....says "scored two tickets for Tuesdays game....wanna go"......John says yes but probably doesn't say what time are you picking me up as often as he says what time should we meet and which door?

Wednesday night I am taking my friend to TFC v Montreal. We both work in the financial core.....an easy walk from each other.....we will drive separately to Liberty Village, park and meet up.....because after he game we are not headed to the same place. I bet, in an average year, I attend 75 - 100 events. In all but a few per year, I drive to the event alone and meet the people I am going with (notable exception are weekend TFC games where my wife and I drive together.....because we are starting and ending in the same place).......I don't think me and my social group are all that different from the rest of the event attending population of the GTA.

 

[sixrings]

Is anyone here from mississauga jealous this isn't happening in their back yard. My in laws are near square one and although there are something like 30 buildings being built in MCC there is nothing entertainment wise as good as this. Maybe Markham should have gotten the casino and Sauga the rink.

 

[Markham VIP]

TOareaFan:

As always, very good points you make my friend.
I did not know that Union to Unionville was 38 minutes (makes sense though). I actually haven't taken the GO in years...lol.

The scenario could also play out like this....Bob calls John...says "scored two tickets for Tuesdays Blue Jackets game at GTA Centre...wanna go" John says yes. The night before the game, John thinks to himself,...hmmm...I don't want to drive into the Downtown Markham core because I've heard parking can be hard to find and is very expensive. He decides it would be better to park at Finch Station and take VIVA rapid-transit from Finch Station to Downtown Markham. Bob, other the other hand, also does not want to drive into the Downtown Markham core so he decides to park at Yonge and Empire Avenue and pays $10 for parking, then he can take transit the rest of the way. Both of these gentleman have heard great things about the rapidway along Hwy 7 and the VIVA service to Finch Station, so both are confident that they will return there with ease.

People who live in the downtown Toronto core should be able to take the GO from Union. Other people who drive can park along a TTC line and make their way to Finch Station. People who need to drive will drive....there are 4400 spots available...haha.

I do agree with you though (you have convinced me) that parking will likely be an issue...at least in the beginning.
Like I've said though, if they need to, they can easily utilize the many office parking lots they have around Downtown Markham that will be free on the evenings and weekends (perhaps IBM west of Warden or Amex south on Warden)..or perhaps any of the many many offices along birchmount or warden. They can even as a last resort pave more parking spots...it's not like they don't have the land.

I hope that the structured parking will be built sooner rather than later. I also hope that extensive underground parking lots will be more standard in the design of future buildings.

 

[Markham VIP]

Is anyone here from mississauga jealous this isn't happening in their back yard. My in laws are near square one and although there are something like 30 buildings being built in MCC there is nothing entertainment wise as good as this. Maybe Markham should have gotten the casino and Sauga the rink.

Within the next 5 years, Markham will have arena, casino, and NHL team!

 

[sixrings]

Maybe make a warden and a Kennedy lrt.

 

[sixrings]

Btw as someone from bathurst eglinton area I think scarborough is far. Markham is practically cottage country.