Chronamut
Active Member
How the original streetwall looked:
I want some of those fancy goods.
I want some of those fancy goods.
Hamilton Gore Park Condos | 106.9m | 32s | HBSC | KNYMH
- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
LocalCPT
New Member
The idea that these facades were in someway adding value to the public realm is just wrong. Im all for conserving heritage properties, but these were in absolute disrepair and frankly it's a welcome sight to see them go. This is what they used to be used for back in 2012 lol
mrgrande
New Member
Taking bets on how long this is an empty lot. I'm saying 15 years.
Chronamut
Active Member
I think what we are all fearful of more than an empty lot is what disaster they will put up in their place.. blanchard originally wanted to put a damn TARGET there..
Sunnyside
Active Member
I’m going to push back here.
On the basis of contextual, historical, and design value, these objectively pass *at least* two. You can choose between contextual/design value, but these satisfy at least one, if not both. Either they contribute to Gore Park’s street wall, or they are aesthetically worthwhile themselves, or both.
This is essentially the test for actual heritage consideration. Certainly they weren’t in the best condition nor used for a high street clothier, but neither of those realities detract from the heritage elements themselves.
There are other heritage experts on UT if anyone wants to chime in, but I really struggle to see the case against designating these in a vacuum.
isaidso
Senior Member
It's shocking how so many people declare buildings disposable due to shabbiness, destruction of architectural elements, or being structurally compromised, At the very least, we should rebuild the facade facing Gore Park but we could do a lot more if we chose to. It bears mentioning that Potsdam, Germany was able to rebuild a few city blocks to what it looked like in the 1930s. This is all NEW and built to modern standards,
This is NEW! Construction started in 1999 and will be fully complete by 2030
.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP1PGQp88I0&t=711s
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KingJames
Active Member
So how does Germany make this happen and all we can hope for is something that is just acceptable?
Chronamut
Active Member
Germans have a higher work ethic than canadians apparently lol - we're too worried about woke shit and if rebuilding something still classifies it as "heritage or "disney architecture" *eyes slide over to david*
I mean what.. does hamilton have to get BOMBED before we reconsider rebuilding the architecture we've lost?? And I love how people poo poo that "oh we don't have the artisans to do it anymore" bull friggen shit. You have a computer - you have 3d printing, you have molds, you have concrete - any child with a wooden mold could recreate half the architectural details we have lost - it's not hard esp. when you consider molds and 3d printing assets and all the modern technologies we have. Get some tool and die on board.
I think in some ways hamilton is still ashamed of itself and doesn't feel like it deserves nice things - so it's opted to just erase all of its past and replace it with bland rectangular boxes that noone will remember. Modern architecture is a plague in this city, where the concept is just to pack things into boxes and that somehow artisan details are gauche or too fru-fru.
--
And we're not even "interesting" modern - I've seen some cool shapes and curves in modern architecture - all hamilton knows how to do is make right angles - and mayybe the occasional 45 degree angle and slight curve like on kiwi condos - but for the most part, just right angles. That's not architecture - there is a reason the word "arch" is in architecture. Curves, interesting angles and patterns, innovative design, THAT''s architecture, not this generic ikea shit that any toddler with a cad program or google sketchup could drag and drop - it's disgusting. Our standards are disgusting, and the standards the city has in approving are disgusting.
I get it - in their minds anything being built is better than nothing - but we have a SERIOUS vacuum of creative thought and innovation going on. We survived the architecture destruction of the 80s but it seems we only delayed it by 40 years and now they're just letting it all collapse so they can build some monstrosity in its place. Thank god for liuna and core urban keeping the core semi-preserved - but this whole area is turning out to be extremely bland -hell they even made gore park bland - it used to be secluded with gardens and surrounded by iron wrought fencing - now it just feels like it's been hacked and slashed, empty garden plots, areas entirely reduced to grass patches.
--
It feels like we have ZERO civic pride left. You don't even see flags flying anymore - even though all the original buildings had spots to hang them. Thus these buildings being demolished has a far more symbolic aspect than just some dilapidated architecture being taken down - its a reflection of who we are as a city that is being erased progressively, and the developers don't care, and the city doesn't care, and thus it feels like more and more of us as PEOPLE is also being erased. Hamilton is rare in how much culture it has - it and toronto are the only "true" cities in the golden horseshoe with rich and long histories, and we're simply carelessly erasing it. We should be upkeeping, revitalizing and restoring our past so that future generations can appreciate it, not destroying it.
This has always been one of my fave modern old meets new areas of toronto:
It's a brilliant concept of preserving facades against the rigors of nature in a climate controlled environment but still letting light in and respecting modern architectural styles. More and more it feels like we the people have to remind they the representatives who they serve. The govt works for US - WE are their client.
Architecture isn't JUST about what it looks like - it's about what it represents and the history behind it - these buildings were some of the oldest buildings left - pre-confederation by a famous architect in canada - it's not JUST the fact that the aesthetic streetwall was bulldozed - it's that the people said no to this destruction, and they went and did it anyways - OUR voices were silenced. THAT'S mainly what people are upset about. The city let us down.
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IamNotaRobot
New Member
I would have to guess that its because there is no incentive for builders to build anything of architectural significance in Hamilton. Everything is cost benefit and making something look better is cost with little value. It would require high income earners to foot that bill and/or someone with deep pockets that wants to create a legacy building.Germans have a higher work ethic than canadians apparently lol - we're too worried about woke shit and if rebuilding something still classifies it as "heritage or "disney architecture" *eyes slide over to david*
I mean what.. does hamilton have to get BOMBED before we reconsider rebuilding the architecture we've lost?? And I love how people poo poo that "oh we don't have the artisans to do it anymore" bull friggen shit. You have a computer - you have 3d printing, you have molds, you have concrete - any child with a wooden mold could recreate half the architectural details we have lost - it's not hard esp. when you consider molds and 3d printing assets and all the modern technologies we have. Get some tool and die on board.
I think in some ways hamilton is still ashamed of itself and doesn't feel like it deserves nice things - so it's opted to just erase all of its past and replace it with bland rectangular boxes that noone will remember. Modern architecture is a plague in this city, where the concept is just to pack things into boxes and that somehow artisan details are gauche or too fru-fru.
--
And we're not even "interesting" modern - I've seen some cool shapes and curves in modern architecture - all hamilton knows how to do is make right angles - and mayybe the occasional 45 degree angle and slight curve like on kiwi condos - but for the most part, just right angles. That's not architecture - there is a reason the word "arch" is in architecture. Curves, interesting angles and patterns, innovative design, THAT''s architecture, not this generic ikea shit that any toddler with a cad program or google sketchup could drag and drop - it's disgusting. Our standards are disgusting, and the standards the city has in approving are disgusting.
I get it - in their minds anything being built is better than nothing - but we have a SERIOUS vacuum of creative thought and innovation going on. We survived the architecture destruction of the 80s but it seems we only delayed it by 40 years and now they're just letting it all collapse so they can build some monstrosity in its place. Thank god for liuna and core urban keeping the core semi-preserved - but this whole area is turning out to be extremely bland -hell they even made gore park bland - it used to be secluded with gardens and surrounded by iron wrought fencing - now it just feels like it's been hacked and slashed, empty garden plots, areas entirely reduced to grass patches.
--
It feels like we have ZERO civic pride left. You don't even see flags flying anymore - even though all the original buildings had spots to hang them. Thus these buildings being demolished has a far more symbolic aspect than just some dilapidated architecture being taken down - its a reflection of who we are as a city that is being erased progressively, and the developers don't care, and the city doesn't care, and thus it feels like more and more of us as PEOPLE is also being erased. Hamilton is rare in how much culture it has - it and toronto are the only "true" cities in the golden horseshoe with rich and long histories, and we're simply carelessly erasing it. We should be upkeeping, revitalizing and restoring our past so that future generations can appreciate it, not destroying it.
This has always been one of my fave modern old meets new areas of toronto:
It's a brilliant concept of preserving facades against the rigors of nature in a climate controlled environment but still letting light in and respecting modern architectural styles. More and more it feels like we the people have to remind they the representatives who they serve. The govt works for US - WE are their client.
Architecture isn't JUST about what it looks like - it's about what it represents and the history behind it - these buildings were some of the oldest buildings left - pre-confederation by a famous architect in canada - it's not JUST the fact that the aesthetic streetwall was bulldozed - it's that the people said no to this destruction, and they went and did it anyways - OUR voices were silenced. THAT'S mainly what people are upset about. The city let us down.
Chronamut
Active Member
Core urban can do it, and DOES do it - and I don't see them complaining. They don't have huge pockets and they're not rich. Let's be honest - these buildings were built in some of the poorest times in our history. The facades that were taken down - the stone was mere veneer on the building - that building did not take a ton to build. It was stone veneer, brick, and wood. That's IT. And it doesn't take a lot to make a veneer look substantial. Many of the stone shapes were simple - sure there may have been a bit of flourish under the arches but overall pretty easy to create. Granted there were more artisans back then but refer to my previous argument on that.
I think that line of thinking is a myth - they simply don't do it because they want to make a cheap buck, and have no feeling of civic pride for this city, or even for the look of their buildings. We have brainwashed an entire generation into thinking building materials that are cheap, and look cheap - exposed supports and concrete walls, is somehow chic, when in reality it's merely "cheap". Making you pay more, and getting less value for it.
A building that is all glass is not architecture if there is no design to it - it's a glass box. Anyone can make a glass box. That's not something that will be remembered in time, nor should it be celebrated. Half the new buildings I see have no impact on me because they're so big and boxy there is no form to really take in - it's just.. there..
The mohawk I wing is modern and glassy but it has angles and shapes and compositions that make it look interesting and inspiring - so don't think I am against modern art - I am against a lack of imagination.
I think the standards for architects need to be raised, esp in the core of the city. This should never happen again.
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