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I find the idea that graffiti artists /taggers /etc. won't touch other graffiti to be generally a laughable idea. Seems to work for a short period of time, but then it all ends up going to hell with the good art getting covered in half-assed tags, bubble letters, and other boring stuff. Bloor St. between Perth and Dundas West (under the Railpath / Bloor GO Station) is a good example. I think the City/Metrolinx paid something like $100K for the art project there - went to a team of graffiti artists who took each took on individual panels on the concrete walls along there. I liked much of it....if was fun and colourful. Didn't take long for some tags to show up.....not too badly at first... but now it's pretty much completely wrecked.

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Brand New in 2015.

1673810309202.png

November 2021.
....and even worse now.
 
SaugeenJunction said:
I’m not exactly sure what you’re trying to say, but doing objectively ugly spray paint scribbles over nice public art is anti-social and bad.
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But that's the point. One person's "ugly spray paint scribbles" is somebody else's Rembradt. I happen to agree that the before is much more visually appealing and compelling than the after, but that is simply my subject view. I also don't like the works of Picasso or Dali and do like Bateman, contrary to the views of many serious art critics. It's pretty hard to apply an objective analysis to 'art' simply as an observer. Once the property owner expressed or implied that graffiti art is acceptable, the door is opened and we all get to pass judgement on the end product(s).

BTW, I meant to say 'subjective criteria', not "subject criteria".
 
lenaitch said:
But that's the point. One person's "ugly spray paint scribbles" is somebody else's Rembradt. I happen to agree that the before is much more visually appealing and compelling than the after, but that is simply my subject view. I also don't like the works of Picasso or Dali and do like Bateman, contrary to the views of many serious art critics. It's pretty hard to apply an objective analysis to 'art' simply as an observer. Once the property owner expressed or implied that graffiti art is acceptable, the door is opened and we all get to pass judgement on the end product(s).

BTW, I meant to say 'subjective criteria', not "subject criteria".
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Non commissioned "art" as you call it is illegal and vandalism. Plain and simple. Police simply don't have the time and the justice system is a joke
 
Like it or not, ”tagging” is counterculture - so the moment the mainstream declares that a building or other surface is sacrosanct, the taggers will visit. Street art is, sadly, a bit anarchist.

I recall when that artwork on the rail corridor around Douro St went in…. the chosen artists had to meet City and railway safety standards while they worked. That meant hi-vis vests, safety boots, goggles, hard hats. Perfectly sensible, but watching them work it was apparent that they had crossed over from counterculture to mainstream construction project….. not very hipster.

I am not defending tagging, I’m just observing that like dandelions, it’s part of urban life, and impossible to deter - one can only get so disturbed by it.

- Paul
 
Kraylin said:
Non commissioned "art" as you call it is illegal and vandalism. Plain and simple. Police simply don't have the time and the justice system is a joke
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Absolutely. I'm not defending any of it; simply the concept that it is difficult to broad brush 'A is nice, B is ugly' because it is so subjective. I imagine the people who did B and their cohorts think it just fine. The fact the city paid one group of rattle can artists to decorate a public space and thought it would survive untouched by another group of rattle can artists was probably naïve.
 
crs1026 said:
Like it or not, ”tagging” is counterculture - so the moment the mainstream declares that a building or other surface is sacrosanct, the taggers will visit. Street art is, sadly, a bit anarchist.

I recall when that artwork on the rail corridor around Douro St went in…. the chosen artists had to meet City and railway safety standards while they worked. That meant hi-vis vests, safety boots, goggles, hard hats. Perfectly sensible, but watching them work it was apparent that they had crossed over from counterculture to mainstream construction project….. not very hipster.

I am not defending tagging, I’m just observing that like dandelions, it’s part of urban life, and impossible to deter - one can only get so disturbed by it.

- Paul
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Wonder how many homeowners put on steel-toe boots, reflective vests, work gloves, hard hats, and safety googles when they do their own handi-man work around the house?
DRlQmy2X4AIz4yM
 
The underpass on Lansdowne south of Dundas has beautiful artwork on the east side that the city (smartly, for once) covered with some sort of clear coat that makes removing tags easy without damaging the commissioned art, and as a result it remains fully intact. Why can't this be applied everywhere else too?
 
crs1026 said:
I have to say, since they have added the sound walls so extensively, the airiness of the guideway has diminished.

I recall someone at one of the early town halls expressing fear of a "classic MTO highways overpass look" - the design isn't awful, but it has more massing than I had hoped. the taper on the underside of the guideway is a big help.

What happened to the plan to add cladding?

- Paul
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While they dont work as well for sound and tend to stain, I feel like plexiglass soundwalls would have been a huge improvement here over the concrete to keep things airy and light and less like a chernobyl sarcophagus.

1673894123296.png
 
W. K. Lis said:
Wonder how many homeowners put on steel-toe boots, reflective vests, work gloves, hard hats, and safety googles when they do their own handi-man work around the house?
DRlQmy2X4AIz4yM
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Probably not many (well, maybe eye and ear protection) but we aren't subject to OHSA and aren't hiring third parties to work on our property. Given that the artists likely didn't/don't have insurance or covered under Workers' Comp, the city bears total liability.
 
vic said:
I find the idea that graffiti artists /taggers /etc. won't touch other graffiti to be generally a laughable idea. Seems to work for a short period of time, but then it all ends up going to hell with the good art getting covered in half-assed tags, bubble letters, and other boring stuff. Bloor St. between Perth and Dundas West (under the Railpath / Bloor GO Station) is a good example. I think the City/Metrolinx paid something like $100K for the art project there - went to a team of graffiti artists who took each took on individual panels on the concrete walls along there. I liked much of it....if was fun and colourful. Didn't take long for some tags to show up.....not too badly at first... but now it's pretty much completely wrecked.

View attachment 450632
Brand New in 2015.

View attachment 450633
November 2021.
....and even worse now.
Click to expand...

Prior to the pandemic, the local murals generally lasted for many years without significant tagging. The one at Dupont and Dundas, for instance, went about 10 years without significant tagging.

You can see it here by clicking through the Google Maps Street View imagery from different dates. As of May 2019, it was fine. By 2021, it was destroyed.

This rather modest but attractive mural was fine for years, but it was destroyed during the pandemic.
 
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crs1026 said:
I am not defending tagging, I’m just observing that like dandelions, it’s part of urban life, and impossible to deter - one can only get so disturbed by it.
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I agree that there will always be some graffiti/tagging... but I disagree that it is impossible to deter. That thinking would be like making a decision that we stop trying to ticket speeders because there will always be speeders. Yes, there will always be speeders but it is possible to deter and the more speeders are caught the less people speed. If you drive in other places where enforcement is high you can tell based on the speed of traffic that is the case. If you paint over their tags soon after they place them, that is a deterrence, if you catch people and charge them that is a deterrence, and obviously making things easy to clean or covering surfaces with vines or other treatments that obscure that graffiti is a deterrence. Doing nothing to deter is certain to have the issue explode.
 
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