Toronto GO Transit: Davenport Diamond Grade Separation | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

RER on that line is only planned as far as Aurora. Of course on all the lines planned for electrification, diesel will still be used for the sections beyond RER, that's a given, so electrifying the bridge from the get-go, and then the rest of the line to Aurora sets in play a guarantee (one would hope) of what's to follow. This isn't a wholesale commitment to electrifying the whole system, it's a commitment to the nearby residents that the bridge heralds the beginning of the next, cleaner, quieter, faster era.

In light of Metrolinx' failing to meet commitments in the past, and then falling victim to political persuasion and poor decisions like opening the UPX in haste under false pretenses and a poor choice of rolling stock and propulsion mode (the auditing of the PanAm Games shows a massive lack of accounting on huge sums), then it's not a stretch to expect a show of good faith, let alone wise decision and accounting, to electrify to Aurora and Bramalea in close timing as one combined project to 'stone two birds with one kill'.

I didn't think I'd see the community group blink and be so pragmatic. It's time for Metrolinx to do same....let me be more specific on this, since the Greenwash from Queen's Park is turning my stomach (and I'm *VERY* Green, but in a pragmatic way). If Wynne et al want to make good their haughty weasel words, they'd better show something for their tiresome spiel, and electrification of GO is a damn good place to start. Not in the future ("trust us, have we ever lied?") but *NOW*. Electrification is surprisingly affordable in the big scheme of massive infrastructure projects.

So start the process now, for both lines, and start the process of tendering for suitable rolling-stock with an eye to continued acquisition of stock for the rest of the planned RER.
crs1026 said:
A better analogy would be Cirque du Soleil.
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In many ways, but not flattering.

Edit to Add: I was doing second thoughts on what I proposed prior, and one of the stumbling blocks to moving ahead immediately on electrification is the inevitable "we haven't budgeted for that yet". OK...since it would *save* large amounts of money in the long-run to electrify now, let's take an innovative approach, a la Desjardins-Siciliano's missive on private equity tapping the Ontario pension funds. (Among others, but Caisse has just committed to doing the massive Montreal transit project)

Invite them to make a proposal to do the investment to make this happen now where Queen's Park is waffling. Pension funds are *looking* to invest, especially the Ontario ones:
Major public assets like airports, ports and highways would offer some the most intriguing opportunities for private investment should stakes in such assets ever go on the block, says one of the country’s biggest potential investors.

The federal Liberals are considering a system that could see Ottawa — as well as other levels of government — sell infrastructure assets under their jurisdiction.

Mature Canadian infrastructure is still mostly owned by governments and putting a “For Sale” sign on it would offer a tantalizing opportunity for large players such as the massive Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan.

Andrew Claerhout, who leads the pension plan’s infrastructure group, said he’s encouraged by Ottawa’s recent signals it could make more public infrastructure available.

Claerhout said the organization, which holds net assets of about $170 billion worldwide, is on the lookout for “relatively large” investment opportunities — from the “hundreds of millions to the billions.”

It’s looking for projects that would produce returns through user fees — everything from snack bar sales in an airport to a highway toll booth.

The pension plan already holds about $17 billion worth of infrastructure investments internationally, but just $3 billion — less than 20 per cent — in Canada.

That’s the conundrum — there’s a limited number of federal assets with a lot of investment potential, Claerhout said in an interview.

“If there were enough high-quality infrastructure projects to invest in Canada, we would have a program that was predominantly Canadian,” he said.[...]
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ent-in-public-infrastructure/article30309488/

Need more dots to tie this together?
Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan and CPPIB buy into Mexican toll highway

A curving toll road is bringing two of Canada’s largest pension funds to Mexico in an investment poised to tap into growth in the country’s manufacturing sector.

The Canada Pension Plan Investment Board (CPPIB) and the Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan said Thursday that they would team up and contribute a combined $1.35-billion for nearly half of the Arco Norte toll road.
[...]
Now that the road is operational, with toll plazas, security systems and staff in place, IDEAL could be looking to fund its next big project. The Mexican government has ambitious plans to bolster the country’s productivity and ability to compete on the world stage, and part of that will be replacing crumbling infrastructure in areas such as electricity distribution and building new projects from the ground up, such as transit lines.

IDEAL’s plans could align with the global trend of “asset recycling” that has gathered steam in recent months as more investors seek to invest in hard assets such as infrastructure. Governments and other developers may look to sell more mature infrastructure assets and use the money to fund new development. It’s a system that has been popular in Australia and an idea that Canadian Finance Minister Bill Morneau has been considering, and even mentioned in the federal budget.
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...r-latest-infrastructure-play/article30372560/

Where's the dialog on concepts like this, Ms Wynne? I'm far from being either a raving Capitalist or a snivelling Socialist, but I am a Radical Centrist. And I'm getting just a little tired of excuses to not move things forward at a natural and meaningful rate,.

I mean, Ontario's only decades behind the RoW....

Second Edit to Add: And as a further thought: Invite those same Funds to entertain Desjardins-Siciliano (VIA Rail) in a *joint* project, perhaps secondary to the Ontario transit lines, to enter into an encompassing consortium to do both GO electrification and/or rolling stock and VIA's HFR from Montreal via Ottawa to Toronto.

Ontarians investing in Ontario. What a concept....
 
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crs1026 said:
That's true, but this is our first time,
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Actually not! Ontario had a pretty extensive inter-urban and electric high-speed (for the time) system back in the Twenties, many of them falling into the Canadian National Electric Railways stable.

The Toronto Radial Railways Guelph branch, http://www.britishpathe.com/video/electric-railways-canada/query/electric+railway+canada had a daily express (the one shown in this vid is an excursion multi-coach loco drawn) that made it between Toronto Junction and downtown Guelph in less time than the present GO service does....*almost a century ago!*

And Montreal has the electric Deux Montagnes service, upgraded to 25kV ac some thirty years back from 1500 dc from over a hundred years ago (same original ownership, btw, as the Mackenzie-Mann urban rail network in Toronto via the Canadian Northern in Montreal's case.) The technology is very well established and known, making excuses for Ontario's inability to do what she knows must be done (should have already been done) begs credulity. Quebec is one of the world leaders in modern UHV transmission lines and inverters. Where's Ontario?

Seems to me that Ontario could *establish* a reason to keep transmission tech know-how here, instead of having to import it from those who have the where-with-all to be state-of-the-art. Or is that beyond us? Wynne keeps *Harping* on (pun fully meant) about how we have to embrace change....words are cheap, especially when we pay for them for her. Make no mistake, I think Wynne was the least bad of the options to vote for last election, but it doesn't follow that she knows what she's doing....
 
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I recall there was an electric tram that made it almost all the way to Barrie -- almost 100 years ago. I forgot what part of the area, or which city, but it went near Cook's Bay. That big body of water up north.

Yes, a streetcar extended that far almost a century ago.
 
mdrejhon said:
I recall there was an electric tram that made it almost all the way to Barrie -- almost 100 years ago. I forgot what part of the area, or which city, but it went near Cook's Bay. That big body of water up north.

Yes, a streetcar extended that far almost a century ago.
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There were a number, most of the *interurbans* (heavier build than streetcars) were standard gauge. They would interchange freight from railroads and deliver and pick-up to local destinations, as well as run passengers and parcels full length. They had knuckle couplers and air brakes. The line up Yonge St was "Toronto gauge", same as today's streetcars and subway. That one ran along the south-east shore of Lake Simcoe via Georgina to Sutton, but over the years was slowly cut-back to various destinations along the way (Newmarket, etc).

There's an amazing amount of info on-line, complete with some stunning pics that make you feel you've lived there in a prior life.

Edit to Add: We're way off-topic, but I'll add this interesting snippet as exploring the history of the York Radial, misleading references are made for gauge. Here's why:
Standard gauge era (1895?-1927)
Once the Metropolitan line converted to standard gauge, it could interchange carload freight with steam railways, which it did with the CNR. Carload freight accounted for 10-15% of the line's revenue for many years. There was also milk traffic and train loads of ice from Lake Simcoe.[2]

Toronto gauge era (1927-1930)
With the change of the Metropolitan line to Toronto gauge, express motors and trailers carrying LCL freight and produce were run into downtown Toronto. The TTC converted the former TRC shops on Sherbourne Street into a freight terminal. There were 4 round trips per day from Sutton. Express service ended in 1930 with the closure of the Lake Simcoe line.[10]

The TTC continued a standard-gauge freight service between the CNR and Collis Leather in Aurora. To do this, the TTC laid 3 km (1.9 mi) of four-rail, dual-gauge track. The TTC stationed a former passenger car there for standard-gauge shunting.[10]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Street_Railway_(Toronto)

" The TTC converted the former TRC shops on Sherbourne Street into a freight terminal." Proximity to St Lawrence Market!
 
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raptor said:
They got their station at Bloor/Lansdowne
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This is great news for anyone who commutes to York University from the West End: instead of going to St.George and then back up on the Spadina line, they will be able to take the train from Bloor/Lansdowne to Downsview Park and transfer to the subway there.
This is easily cutting the commute time in half. It also takes some pressure off St.George as a transfer point -- it's starting to look like a real transit network if people are no longer forced to go downtown simply to transfer between lines
 
I see Metrolinx are looking for a commitment for a covered access from Lansdowne GO to Lansdowne TTC. If negotiations take as long as BloorGO-DundasWestTTC...
 
lol...I live near the Crossways, asked management if they could discuss the case, no matter how I posed the question, and technical ones, the answer was always: "No Comment".

Other than ground water issues, that *ostensibly* shouldn't create too much of a challenge (the present running track bores are dry and no sign of corrosion) one wonders why access just wasn't/isn't bored to the ends of the Dundas West platforms, adjacent and just above the centre line of the running tunnels. From my understanding of the legal issues, as long as safety and engineering aspects are satisfied, no legal permission to bore is needed. Only cut and cover would need it. Again, soil conditions besides, this would be the normal way to do this in other cities like London (albeit they have clay under most of London north of the Thames), but I have not heard the concept raised once as per Bloor tunnel access.

In the case of Lansdowne, it would be almost all on public RoW/roadway (Wade), the area that now isn't is probably due for expropriation for the building anyway.

Well Lansdowne might finally get a spruce up! (It needs it, one of the glummest subway stations in Toronto)
 
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Currently, Metrolinx is looking at sticking the Bloor-Lansdowne GO station on the south side of Bloor. See pages 5 and 8 from the January meeting handout:
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/rer/20160118_Davenport_Public_Meeting_Handout_EN.pdf

This would make the connection to Lansdowne TTC trickier. I suppose they could use the proposed multi-use trail to connect to Wade Ave. (across former concrete factory land - need ROW through there). To bring it as close as possible, I guess the trains could possibly stop right over Bloor St. But just north of Bloor is where the berm will start to rise for the grade separation, and I'm guessing they can't stop on a hill. That's over 280m just to get into the existing west-side entrance to Lansdowne, then you still have to go underground, under Lansdowne, etc. to get to the mezzanine.

Will be interesting to see how they work this out.
 
vic said:
Currently, Metrolinx is looking at sticking the Bloor-Lansdowne GO station on the south side of Bloor. See pages 5 and 8 from the January meeting handout:
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/rer/20160118_Davenport_Public_Meeting_Handout_EN.pdf
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Yeah, see what you mean. It's going to be quite a "covered walkway" to do that. Possibility of walkway over bridge to Wade.
vic said:
They're doing some renovations in there right now. Replacing all fare gates / collector booths etc.
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It's not just a gloomy station, the immediate area needs a boost too. That being said, investing in property around there is almost guaranteed to multiply in value.
 
Minister Murray had no objections to the Metrolinx TPAP for the grade separation. Letter here and the associated table here. Also, MPP Martins sent this letter.

I assume Metrolinx will now prepare a RFP to begin the process of hiring construction companies to complete the project.
 
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It’s not clear that Metrolinx has enough rail corridor property to deliver this extension south without support from the City of Toronto. We look forward to getting confirmation from the City that this opportunity meets the City’s cycling network growth plans and that the City is interested in partnering on this extension.
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As it moves forward with detailed design, Metrolinx welcomes confirmation that the City of Toronto views this unlocked public space as a City asset to be integrated into the existing cycling/trail/park network.
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Reading between the lines: "maybe if the city actually coughs up some money for once, you can have your fancy bike path". (I don't particularly care where the money comes from, but I hope somebody pays for the connection to the railpath.)
 
I'm glad there is a lot less opposition to the (much better and less disruptive) viaduct proposal.

From a government standard, there is a much bigger amount of public engagement, as this is a much higher-profile project than the various ongoing work on Stoufville/Lakeshore lines.

For Davenport, the public-realm improvements is unusually far higher than the usual 1.5% Metrolinx standard (e.g. 1.5% of the budget for Hurontario LRT/Hamilton LRT/Finch West LRT, can be applied to public realm improvements like landscaping, fancy sidewalks, art, etc). But this is okay, because it's still so much cheaper than the trench-tunnel.

Regarding the worth of Davenport grade separation, this summer I had the opportunity to drive beyond Barrie to a friend's cottage, and make some stops along the way.

Till this summer, I was somewhat skeptical that the Barrie line can actually meet projections of dramatic increases in GO ridership, but after driving the 400 by car a few times, I think the Barrie line can have one of the biggest ridership percentage increase of any GO line, post-electrification and infill-stations (e.g. Innisfil) with 365-day 2-way service, and justify any good Davenport grade-separation solution. Total ridership will still be LSW to own, but percentage-ridership-increase, it is probably Barrie Line's to win.

Many permanent residents now in Barrie and varying communities along the route. It would now appear the Barrie line has great potential for massive ridership increases. The 400 is always pretty crowded and frequent electric trains would seal the deal for a lot to leave the car behind when heading to Toronto -- the 400 may only have needed to be as wide as the Gardiner if Barrie had Lakeshore West league service.

(For the opposite direction it's harder -- a Hamilton/Torontoian carowner visiting a friend in cottage country or inconvenient-except-by-car resident. Theoretically, for me to leave my car behind when visiting that area, there would eventually need to be solutions like Presto-tap carshares, maybe even driverless hailable straight to station by 2050. (In time. All this stuff, can only help the business case for Barrie GO over the generational timescales, anyway.)

It's going to be interesting to see how Barrie Corridor mobility changes over the next 10 years (all stops along the route) once this Davenport project unlocks this ability of all-day service that also performs much faster than today. It would essentially be a defacto new transit line.
 
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