Toronto GO Transit: Davenport Diamond Grade Separation | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Allandale25 said:
GO Transit built a rail-over-rail grade separation on the Barrie Line a few years ago eliminating the Snider Diamond/Crossing. The Barrie Line now goes over the CN York Sub (map) on a fly-over bridge. On the east side, it runs fairly close to people's homes on Bob O'Link Avenue.

Now, I realize there are a few differences between the bridge below and the one proposed in Davenport. It appears the homes are somewhat further away from the GO Barrie Line right-of-way. However, it's my understanding that one of the concerns being expressed is the visual barrier and the retaining walls. As you can see below residents on Bob O'Link Ave do see the retaining wall (trees might block it for some depending on where you stand in the backyard). I'm not saying the Davenport Bridge is right or wrong, I'm just providing an example of a "a similar structure built in the last 20 years in a relatively dense old North American residential or commercial area". In this case, it was built by GO.

I checked the York Region map that shows the parcel boundaries and while there is a small gap between the railway right-of-way and the backyards (likely owned by the municipality), if GO ever wanted to build a third track in this area (something that's being considered as part of the GO Barrie RER TPAP), it would likely have to go on the east side, meaning it would be even closer to these homes.
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I lived there for many years and as a railfan, I have to say that bridge is terrible. You can barely see or hear anything when a GO train goes by.
 
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rbt said:
They actually plan on electrification of the entire Barrie line, and all rolling-stock, but still running a local/express trip mix.

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/rer-rollout-by-line.pdf
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Electrification for a train every 60 minutes? That's silly. And by 2024 ... I'll believe it when I see it.

Still, what's the big deal about simply dropping the line and going under the CP line? Maybe you go under Dupont as well similar to how the Georgetown line went under Old Weston Road.
 
nfitz said:
And just why is underground okay for West Toronto diamond, but not at Davenport? I haven't seen any explanation at that. Would it cost more, or is it simply that Metrolinx isn't about to spend the same amount of money for the Davenport residents that they did at West Toronto?
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A) The topography is different at West Toronto. A tunnel at Davenport has more difficulties because the north side climbs more.

B) If ML had to do West Toronto all over, who knows what they might do differently. There were unforseens, particularly with ground water. There was the residents' opposition to pile driving (which hasn't dawned on the Davenport residents.....yet). There was Transport Canada ordering limits to pile driving, which significantly extended the time to construct. There was the need to have both a road and a connecting track pass over the GO/UPX line as well as CP. There was much more available land which facilitated cut and cover and temporary diversions of the GO line which had to remain in service.

There is also the issue that a trenched solution at Davenport can only be 2 tracks wide, whereas the elevated solution can be 3 tracks. We may need that third track one day.

- Paul
 
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nfitz said:
Electrification for a train every 60 minutes? That's silly. And by 2024 ... I'll believe it when I see it.
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Indeed, though I suspect either the entire electrification package will be tendered and awarded by 2018 or we'll have only the short test segment on Lake Shore until closer to 2030.

I'm not convinced the next provincial election is going to be favourable to GTA public transit. Strongly suspect an infrastructure "pause and rethink" policy will win; so tendered work will finish but nothing new starts.
 
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Based on a quick count, I see about 50 residential properties that are the 'directly impacted' ones that directly back (or side) onto the corridor. With a cost differential between overpass and tunnel of ~$530M, that's essentially asking for Metrolinx to spend an extra $1M/adjacent residence. I know that's overly simplified, but based on a quick perusal of MLS, those properties are listing for about $650k-$700k.
 
nfitz said:
Surely the biggest issue if that if you elevate rail through the neighbourhood, you'll have huge sound issues, compared to at surface, or in a trench.
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There is an increase in the noise moving it above grade. Normally in the 5 dB range but can vary. And of course a decrease in the noise if it goes below grade.

There can be mitigating strategies to decrease the noise levels including:
- sound dampeners as part of the track installation
- old tracks vs well maintained tracks (just like on the subway they may need to be smoothed every so often)
- noise barriers on the elevated track (however this reduces the aesthetics as there will be a high fence on top of the bridge)
- elimination of level crossings where a horn is required
- hedges and other high greenery between a back yard and the noise source
- old vs new engines
 
muller877 said:
There is an increase in the noise moving it above grade. Normally in the 5 dB range but can vary. And of course a decrease in the noise if it goes below grade.

There can be mitigating strategies to decrease the noise levels including:
- sound dampeners as part of the track installation
- old tracks vs well maintained tracks (just like on the subway they may need to be smoothed every so often)
- noise barriers on the elevated track (however this reduces the aesthetics as there will be a high fence on top of the bridge)
- elimination of level crossings where a horn is required
- hedges and other high greenery between a back yard and the noise source
- old vs new engines
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I'm curious how sound dampeners, track mainenance and hedges are going to help in this example, to mitigate diesel engine noise?

What level crossings? What old engines? Are you familiar with this line?
 
The only level crossing affected is Wallace Ave. There are no horns used there now. The current bridge plan has Wallace go under (I think dipping very slightly), removing the level crossing.
 
Besides they own the whole line, so why not just do electrification on the whole line now instead of doing parts of it now and coming back to do it later.
 
Adjei said:
Besides they own the whole line, so why not just do electrification on the whole line now instead of doing parts of it now and coming back to do it later.
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It's not now though ... it's 2024. So after the 2018 and 2022 elections. I'll believe it when I see it.
 
nfitz said:
I'm curious how sound dampeners, track mainenance and hedges are going to help in this example, to mitigate diesel engine noise?

What level crossings? What old engines? Are you familiar with this line?
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Sound dampeners and track maintenance reduce the sound of the wheels. Talk to the people near Bloor West that had the subway buried next to them. Their houses literally shook because of the shoddy maintenance job that the TTC did (created both sound and vibrations).

Noise barriers will also reduce the sound. Trees and hedges also act as a noise barrier and reduce the incoming noise (I've been at a friends house in Vancouver with a hedge and we could hardly hear the 4 lane street that was 15 feet away). A nicely cut 20 foot high cedar hedge would certainly reduce the noise in the back yard.

Having the one level crossing do not reduce the diesel engine but quite often create wheel noise. Indirectly it creates noise due to engines needing to slow down and subsequently speed up due to speed limits.

As I understand it when we go to a RER-type service the engines are much smaller and create much less noise (mainly due to the smaller load it will need to carry....less number of cars and single level). And the GO engines will be for longer hauls without stops so you will not have to hear them accelerate. Further as I understand it the newer GO engines are not as noisy as the older ones.
 
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