Toronto GO Transit: Davenport Diamond Grade Separation | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[salsa]

Why not? I support elevated solutions such as this, but I don't see why building a tunnel here is so ludicrous

Because as Adjei just pointed out, the tunnel would cost 4 times as much.

 

[44 North]

Because as Adjei just pointed out, the tunnel would cost 4 times as much.

I'm very much aware of the cost difference, and of the general cost savings that can be found with utilizing open air/elevated infrastructure vs tunneling. But that still doesn't answer the questions in my entire post.

Regardless, Adjei also pointed out that we should have individual municipalities pay the cost difference for tunneling instead of elevating their respective sections. I don't recall that deal being offered in the past. If we can run 12-car bilevels 30ft off the ground through the populated Junction, I don't see why we couldn't have proposed elevating 7-car single levels near Jane north of Steeles (with no NIMBYs for a 3km radius). Or even with the future Yonge North project, which has a massive roadway allowance for much of its stretch. In that instance I think it's without question that elevating at least some of the route should be worth looking into so as to cut down on its astronomical $700M/km cost. Or at the very least trenching, as Metrolinx has recently proposed doing with the DRL.

In this era of austerity and where funds are scarce, I think more are cluing in to the fact that elevated solutions offer big savings. So I'd like to see more support for such measures on future projects.

 

[Adjei]

Last I checked York Region paid money towards the subway project. Sure it was not specifically to tunnel beyond Steeles but they contributed. Toronto wants a more expensive tunnel but don't want to pay. Someone else should foot the bill. I also find it funny reading when the city makes it seem like they did not know this project would be elevated and are just being aware. This project has been proposed for years. Are they just finding out that it would be elevated? If they want a tunnel instead of elevated, they should cough up the money.

 

[dowlingm]

Why not? I support elevated solutions such as this, but I don't see why building a tunnel here is so ludicrous (considering worse precedents have been set). As we speak we have deep bore heavy rail being built below fields, transmission lines, and a toll highway - where the nearest resident is 1,500m away. Not to mention that said project never had a BCA issued by the Prov. We also have +1000 pages on this forum from posters who believe we should never build anything elevated ever.

So why is it so logical for elevated to be built in this instance (rhetorically speaking, considering I support this move and wish we did it for certain past projects and certain subsequent ones)?

Topography. The line is heading uphill at that point but tunnelling means going *down* and then a steeper climb back to grade further up the line. Elevating means shifting the climb nearer to the city but it's less grade change overall from lowest to highest point.

 

[salsa]

The Davenport NIMBYs sent out this press release over twitter. Hashtag: #StoptheMiniGardiner

This is the image they are using as part of their propaganda campaign, which is not at all what the bridge would look like. The community would be better off working to improve the bridge rather than being hysterical and spreading misinformation.

 

[ssiguy2]

This is just more NIMBY Gardiner talk.

Hasn't it occurred to these people that construction technology has changed a "tad" since the Gardiner was built in the early 60s? It is great that Metrolinx is forging ahead with GO. If it was Toronto running the show for GO expansion then RER would already be a decade behind schedule. Tell the NIMBYs that if they spend all the money on a tunnel then electrification is out of the question and the pollution and noise of diesel trains will be out of the question and see has fast they change their tunes.

This is all Toronto's fault as the city has set the expectation up that transit has to be tunnelled no matter where it is including the sprawling suburbs of Scarborough.

I get tired of these self centered people who complain about trains and yet choose to live near a railway.

 

[dowlingm]

The problem is that Bailao will chase votes rather than tell it to them straight. Of course John Parker found out what happens when you don't pander at every bloody turn.

 

[crs1026]

The problem is that Bailao will chase votes rather than tell it to them straight. Of course John Parker found out what happens when you don't pander at every bloody turn.

The well-understood dynamic in City politics - and this was said to me by a Councillor - is that every Councillor has license to take whatever silly position is most convenient to assuage the local voters. They know their fellow Councillors will outvote them. So one minute they are 'for' something when it is unpopular in other wards, but they are 'against' the same thing when it is happening in their own ward. It's just theatrics.

What bothers me more is the quote that this area "deserves" a GO station because they are 'taking one for the team' here. I wish life were that fair and equitable. The area is well served by public transit (including a subway, which Scarberians can only envy apparently) and there is no compelling need for GO to take them downtown. The line will not need a subway connection because it has one further north. A GO station at Davenport will simply add time to every other user's day.

So yes, it is entirely reasonable to expect this part of the city to absorb the impact of the elevated junction, and not get any better transit in return. There is probably something else, not transit related, that they need more. A wise Councillor will know how to fight for that, and not for a GO station.

- Paul

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The Davenport NIMBYs sent out this press release over twitter. Hashtag: #StoptheMiniGardiner

This is the image they are using as part of their propaganda campaign, which is not at all what the bridge would look like. The community would be better off working to improve the bridge rather than being hysterical and spreading misinformation.

Oh noes, it's right beside a playground! It will lead to birth defects, delayed development and lowering of IQs.

If building that bridge is called a sacrificing a community, let the bloodletting begin.

AoD

 

[salsa]

What bothers me more is the quote that this area "deserves" a GO station because they are 'taking one for the team' here. I wish life were that fair and equitable. The area is well served by public transit (including a subway, which Scarberians can only envy apparently) and there is no compelling need for GO to take them downtown. The line will not need a subway connection because it has one further north. A GO station at Davenport will simply add time to every other user's day.

A GO station at Bloor is not just about serving the local neighbourhood, it's to allow Barrie line passengers to transfer to the BD subway. They are building a new GO station at Eglinton for an LRT line that will never have the same ridership or office jobs as the BD subway, so why shouldn't Bloor get a station as well? I don't support the "this area deserves" logic, but it doesn't mean that a station doesn't make sense here.

 

[crs1026]

A GO station at Bloor is not just about serving the local neighbourhood, it's to allow Barrie line passengers to transfer to the BD subway. They are building a new GO station at Eglinton for an LRT line that will never have the same ridership or office jobs as the BD subway, so why shouldn't Bloor get a station as well? I don't support the "this area deserves" logic, but it doesn't mean that a station doesn't make sense here.

That's a fair point, and if there is a demonstrable case to be made that people would want to get off here (to get to Islington/Boor, perhaps) then yes there should be a station. I'm thinking that if that were true, GO would have already built here, but it might as well get looked at here. If there is a business case, and that placates the locals, then no harm done.

- Paul

 

[muller877]

The Davenport NIMBYs sent out this press release over twitter. Hashtag: #StoptheMiniGardiner
View attachment 60009

I love it. A "dense urban neighbourhood". So funny. The tracks have mostly industrial on one side, Is the industrial "neighbours" with the parks and residential on the other?

If Toronto was really interested in improving connections to this neighbourhood they would convince Metrolinx to fund the connection of Lansdowne subway stn with a new GO station...maybe requiring to move the entire box of the Lansdowne to be west of Lansdowne (right now is east with an entrance on Emerson)

A connected system....wouldn't that be ideal.

 

[pman]

I don't live anywhere near as the Junction, so I don't have any particular axe to grind, but I wonder if it's reasonable to simply dismiss residents as NIMBYs. If the Metrolinx project is (a) necessary, and (b) somewhat detrimental to the neighbourhood, then perhaps property owners should be compensated in some way. Maybe a RER station, a property tax abatement or something to enhance the area's public realm (which is probably awful, this being Toronto) would be fair.

 

[ssiguy2]

I don't see why.

This is not a new line but just an improvement of the existing one. This rail line has been there for a 100 years so they can't bitch that they don't want a rail track or bridge near their neighbourhood. To me that's like moving near Pearson and then bitching about the noise.

Anyone who lives in the area already knew there was a rail line and to expect it to not be functioning because they all of a sudden showed up is self-centered in the extreme. They choose to live in an area with a railway and if they all of a sudden don't like the railways they have the choice to leave.

 

[christiesplits]

The problem is that Bailao will chase votes rather than tell it to them straight. Of course John Parker found out what happens when you don't pander at every bloody turn.

Bailao is in a bit of a pickle. She is a card-carrying grit who has to be seen as somewhat receptive to the wishes of the NIMBYs, while also supporting the Davenport Liberal MPP in making the locally unpopular decision.