Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners

Gee, where is Rosie coming from with this:confused:

Keep in mind that when condos such as Mozo were going up in her neighbourhood, she was against *them* as well, ranting and raving about her neighbourhood changing, sterilizing, blah blah blah. She dwells in a mindset that says the grotty, provincial Toronto of 1982 was sheer perfection, and everything else that followed paled in comparison (she still complains about smoking bans in bars, for example). She is rapidly running through the stages of crusty, sad, demented, and outright pathetic. I think only embittered Boomers such as her are the only readership she has left, otherwise I have no idea why she is still given the space she has.
 
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Keep in mind that when condos such as Mozo were going up in her neighbourhood, she was against *them* as well, ranting and raving about her neighbourhood changing, sterilizing, blah blah blah. She dwells in a mindset that says the grotty, provincial Toronto of 1982 was sheer perfection, and everything else that followed paled in comparison (she still complains about smoking bans in bars, for example). She is rapidly running through the stages of crusty, sad, demented, and outright pathetic. I think only embittered Boomers such as her are the only readership she has left, otherwise I have no idea why she is still given the space she has.

I'm 30 and I have trouble with this project. The unbridled capitalist in me argues that Mirvish can do whatever he wants with his land. If so: Drill Baby, Drill. And yet the way that this project is being positioned is as a cultural mecca. It isn't. Its 2500 condo units. Its maximizaiton of real estate because as DiManno rightfully notes: But 2,709 condo units will be a helluva lot more profitable for the Mirvish treasury. This isn’t altruism; it’s hard-nosed entrepreneurialism.

If we as Torontonians embrance entrepreneuralism, then great - embrace the innovative spirit. Why must we wrap something in faux cultural-isms to make commercial interests palatable?
 
pw20:

Except that there is an undeniable cultural element to the project - if it is just about entrepreneuralism, one can follow the traditional pattern of development in the city - hire a second rate architect, throw the preservationists a bone by preserving a facade here or two, and slap a ho-hum tower on top of it all, sans gallery, OCADU, etc. Personally I don't think it is an "either-or" - one can make money and provide something of lasting value to the public at the same time.

AoD
 
I don't see it as an attempt to veil corporate greed in cultural dressing- it is what it is. If anybody is going to profit on condos in this market I would rather it be someone who truly cares about the city and it's cultural assets. In my opinion the benefits outweigh the negatives, and if anybody is going to get rich on condo projects I would say why not Mirvish and team, all the more money to pursue other projects with some cultural merit or noteworthy design. Heck all the power to him.

As for dimanno, I didn't find anything particulary compelling in her article. She likes small cozy neighbourhoods- don't we all. I don't think this argument applies to this stretch abutting the FD. I recall it as mostly parking lots decades ago and it has clearly benefitted from Roy Thompson and the Film centre.
 
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Wow....I knew something was eventually going to give. But to choose this project as the scapegoat for the collective condophobia out there is strange.


And yet the way that this project is being positioned is as a cultural mecca. It isn't. Its 2500 condo units. Its maximizaiton of real estate

If it were strictly maximizing real estate profits, then it would look like pretty much every other condo project in the GTA...sans Gehry, gallery and OCAD.

Forget for the moment that the condo industry in Toronto has been a huge blessing....not the 8th sign of the apocalypse that people are making out.

So yea...let's centre out Mirvish, of all people, and punish him. The only guy in town who isn't strictly motivated by maximizing profit.

Toronto....you're just getting too effing weird for me. But if we can collectively do something as monumentally stupid as electing the likes of Rob Ford as the mayor, then there truly is no limit to how stupid we can get.
 
So yea...let's centre out Mirvish, of all people, and punish him. The only guy in town who isn't strictly motivated by maximizing profit.

Exactly right...DiManno is way off in her thinking, this is one of the few examples of a developer giving back so much more to the city, so that we all benefit...I can't believe the Star still publishes junk journalism like this, unless it's to deliberately stir up controversy..
 
I'm 30 and I have trouble with this project. The unbridled capitalist in me argues that Mirvish can do whatever he wants with his land. If so: Drill Baby, Drill. And yet the way that this project is being positioned is as a cultural mecca. It isn't. Its 2500 condo units. Its maximizaiton of real estate because as DiManno rightfully notes: But 2,709 condo units will be a helluva lot more profitable for the Mirvish treasury. This isn’t altruism; it’s hard-nosed entrepreneurialism.

If we as Torontonians embrance entrepreneuralism, then great - embrace the innovative spirit. Why must we wrap something in faux cultural-isms to make commercial interests palatable?

All valid points, but the discomfort many Canadians have with capitalism is bizarre. Everything we have has to be paid for by someone. Condos may be low brow compared to a theatre or museum, but if that's how these things get funded, so be it. Honestly, I'd rather get a new cultural asset this way than through taxes.

I think we all agree that bringing more residents into the city is a good thing, so does the backlash just speak to 'condo fatigue'?

Btw, perhaps we should wait for more details before dismissing the notion that this will be a cultural mecca. It certainly looks like the proposal offers more than what currently exists there. If demand warrants another theatre, one will be built. It's not like they're proposing to demolish the Royal Alexandra.
 
yyz:

It's an opinion piece bar none - so even though I utter disagree with the premise, my expectations are different from actual news articles. At least it isn't like that other journalist that was supposedly "disciplined" for her transgressions.

AoD
 
Yes, you are right, AoD, it's just a blog, although she certainly gets visibility/tacit endorsement by being on the front page of the Star website....I haven't read any of the 70+ comments posted there, usually they are almost all predictably NIMBY..
 
DiManno is something of a rarity as a columnist in that her views lack an ideological coherence, which makes her more like the average person. But she is firmly in the camp of people who do not like change, though she presumably would deny that. Of course, there can be good change or bad change, but my impression as a reader is that for DiManno change bears a very heavy onus to prove its value.

But if Toronto still works as a place to live and work, it’s due to the durability of neighbourhoods that have retained their street-level grid and their retail high streets and their small businesses.

I think this is wrong. I like these neighbourhoods, I live in one. However, it is notable that the renaissance of these neighbourhoods over the past 10-15 years has occurred concurrently with the rise in condos. The appeal of living in the City (with the now dramatic difference in housing prices between the City and suburbs) has been significantly increased by the influx of young people living in condos in the core because that drives the good retail, restaurants, events, etc. The neighbourhoods DiManno talks about are now out of the financial reach of a large number of people except for basement or one-floor rentals, of which there are fewer.

The stretch of King St. that Mirvish covets to revolutionize — transmogrify — has already been largely mutilated by rampant redevelopment, with their glassy-eyed facades and space-muscling dimensions, so at odds with what had been a high-funk essence of one-up, one-down restaurants and clubs and stores. The Hyatt Regency is a posh carpetbagger, the TIFF Bell Lightbox an undistinguished block hog, and Metro Hall a useless white elephant with no redeeming architectural quality. Only the south side of King, between University Ave. and John St., still feels vibrant and eclectic. Once Mirvish’s colossi rise overbearingly on the north side, how long before the south side withers? Keep in mind that Yonge St. south of Dundas St. never recovered from construction of the Eaton Centre.

Now she shows she doesn't even know the area she is writing about. King Street was never one-up one-down restaurants and clubs, it was Mirvish's theatres and restaurants, restaurant row, and a bunch of parking lots. The club district has been changed, and one could debate whether we are better off with a neighbourhood with residents vs. a derelict warehouse area with clubs popular primarily with people between the ages of 18 and 25, but this development is not in the club district.

All of Hyatt, TIFF and Metro Hall, regardless of their architecutural merit (I do despise the Hyatt, but a "posh carpetbagger"? Does she think all hotels are carpetbaggers? Does she think the rooms should be free?), were built on parking lots.

Guess what is revitalizing Yonge Street south of Dundas. Condos!

The south side of King between University and John contains: (1) one of the City's uglier office buildings, which at street level houses Canada Blood Services and Randstad (recruitment firm); (2) a church; (3) Roy Thomson Hall, set back from the street; (4) David Pecault Square and the previously impugned Metro Hall (there's a greek restaurant in there). Really, this is what she likes? Does she even read these things over before they get posted? I don't think any of the vibrance and eclecticism of this fascinating stretch will wither because of the Gehry project.
 
I too was confused when she mentioned the south side of king.. I always considered that one of the less vibrant stretches of town...
 
I too was confused when she mentioned the south side of king.. I always considered that one of the less vibrant stretches of town...

I assumed she meant the south side where the restaurants are.......but, yep, the southside in the area she defines is the Wave building...St. Andrews and RT Hall.
 

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