cogito ergo
Active Member
I am sorry, but SPA deals with setbacks quite a bit. Height is also important in this process as a derivative of GFA. Shadow studies are usually required for SPA as well.
Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners
- Thread starter golodhendil
- Start date
I think you're all referring to stepbacks, at least as we use the term on front page articles. We use 'setbacks' to refer to the distance from the property line to the building front at ground level, whereas 'stepbacks' happen above ground level, normally as a building's bulk is reduced to fit within angular plane requirements.
Site Plan Approval (SPA) would take setbacks, stepbacks, and shadow studies all into account, but they are already typically worked into the design at the Zoning Bylaw Amendment (ZBA) stage.
By the time the SPA is taking place, the City is seeing for the first time the Landscape and Lighting plan, the Roof plan, the Site Grading plan, the Erosion and Sediment Control plan, the Public Utilities plan. If during the Zoning Bylaw Amendment stage they have only seen elevations, then at SPA it's time for Perspective Drawings to be produced too.
The only time that SPA is dealing with stepbacks/height/shadow studies for the first time, is if the building did not require a ZBA. Very few large buildings do not require a ZBA.
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Site Plan Approval (SPA) would take setbacks, stepbacks, and shadow studies all into account, but they are already typically worked into the design at the Zoning Bylaw Amendment (ZBA) stage.
By the time the SPA is taking place, the City is seeing for the first time the Landscape and Lighting plan, the Roof plan, the Site Grading plan, the Erosion and Sediment Control plan, the Public Utilities plan. If during the Zoning Bylaw Amendment stage they have only seen elevations, then at SPA it's time for Perspective Drawings to be produced too.
The only time that SPA is dealing with stepbacks/height/shadow studies for the first time, is if the building did not require a ZBA. Very few large buildings do not require a ZBA.
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Mirvish + Gehry did not go to the DRP. It had extra scrutiny from the Chief Planner and from the large working group that brought the three towers down to two, and saved the Princess of Wales theatre and the Anderson Building facade.
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ADRM
Senior Member
Yeah, I get the sense (which hasn't been difficult to discern) that this project has long had sufficient buy-in from a variety of stakeholders that the only real obstacle to it being built in something very close to its currently proposed form would be slow sales or other forms of financial difficulty on the part of the developers or financiers. That seem about right to those who know more?
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
Interesting how it's changed again since the version in the LACMA retrospective.
cogito ergo
Active Member
In principle you are right, ZBA takes care of setback requirements.
But once you submit for SPA, even a small change in the building footprint is a matter of consideration and approval during this phase.
Josh
Active Member
Until the SPA has been approved, nothing is set in stone. A requested shift by the city at ground level could conceivably cause ripples throughout a project - I've seen it happen a thousand times. Once the SPA has been approved by the city, the massing has essentially been zip locked. Although, the look of the exterior facade could change completely between now and the building permit set - Gehry has to spend the next year or so figuring out exactly how to build these towers - and that usually has a large impact on the final design of a building. The next big hurdle will take place around tender - more accurate pricing will be available - and Mirvish will likely decide at that time whether or not this project is viable to be built.
Big Daddy
Senior Member
Yah, sure, why don't we just redesign this project every six months or so.
Watching Gehry over the last while, he has quite a number of major projects he just won or is planning - several of which are in his beloved LA.
I don't this one is very high on his to do list any more - and I don't know how many major projects he has left in him - he is 87.
The costing is all being done already; they've been lining up suppliers in advance. This is not your average project.
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Josh
Active Member
Cost estimates have no doubt been done - but it's the tender prices that really matter in the end. Those prices can only be calculated once you have a nearly finished set of drawings - you might know potential suppliers - but without any details or structural drawings - you don't really know what you're buying, let alone how many of those things you're buying, not to mention the cost of labour at the time, and the us dollar rate. You can tell this project is still fairly preliminary by looking at the impossibly thin cantilevers in the latest batch of renders - some poor engineer has yet to figure the size of the transfer slabs that'll be needed - and the ungodly amount of steel they'll contain.
ushahid
Senior Member
I don't know if this project will ever see the light. with housing market going down, I doubt this project will ever get build. 
ADRM
Senior Member
I don't know if this project will ever see the light. with housing market going down, I doubt this project will ever get build.
What does "with housing market going down" mean?
I'd be quite surprised if this project didn't see completion, barring unforeseen events such as massive exogenous shocks or extreme financial difficulty entered into by the developer. There's widespread support at various levels for this project, it has all the ingredients necessary to sell well (at least insofar as it's planned), and the housing market is still quite strong.
FMCS
Active Member
Housing prices up another 21% this year alone, making purchasing condo units increasingly more attractive and affordable!
argus
Active Member
So the increasing prices of condominiums makes them more affordable?
Must be the "new" economics.
ADRM
Senior Member
I think there's some sarcasm that's being missed in some of the comments on this thread, so I'm not really sure what anyone is saying, but plainly, there's not any housing market-related data that would convincingly suggest that this project is less likely to advance.