Mike in TO
Senior Member
I attended the meeting last night... a couple of thoughts & observations:
1. For those who had become wedded to the previous design... it was still a design in flux and would have continued to evolve – what you saw what not what you were going to get anyway.
2. For 90% of projects out there, the public only sees the final or close to final design - this was a unique process in which we've been "invited" into Gehry's studio to see the many incarnations of an ever evolving design.
3. There were literally dozens of models on display at the public meeting showing variations of the proposed "skin/façade" of the new towers - they displayed variations in texture, materials and various different "ripple effects" - none of the pictures posted on the forum yet do justice to the potential details that Gehry is considering for the towers. I've read a couple comments in this thread concerned about a watered down "box" - from what was on display last night, I think it is fair to say that the "skin" of the new proposal is still very much up in the air and that Gehry has some very very interesting ideas that will be unlike anything ever built in this city.
4. Again, for those that are trashing the "bureaucrats" & planners in this process.... planning is politics period. There are a few people on this thread who became wedded to the original proposal and spend a lot of energy here on their keyboards typing away - okay great - where were you at the public meetings? Where were you at Toronto East York Community Council? with the local councilor (Vaughan deserves a lot of credit for pushing this through - I think the project would have likely failed without his involvement at the city level and would have been declined by the OMB) with the planning department, trying to get involved with the BIA, community or the working group etc? Screaming at the internet does not accomplish anything.... I think a lot of people have failed to recognize that for every "pro M-G proponent" there were a lot more highly vocal and highly motivated people against the project.
The heritage issues weren't just a "planning" issue - they were a political barrier to the project being approved. The loss of the Princess of Wales was not a "planning" issue - but it did motivate a lot of people to vocally oppose the project....As much as some people liked the pretty pictures and renderings there was a lot of very real political pressures and planning issues that stood in the way of either planning department support, council support and made for an OMB approval very very unlikely - the only solution was for various factions to work together. This is the real world, not SimCity.
5. Back to the project and something that hasn't been discussed on this thread, but that was a key point of discussion last night was the re-orientation of the new project to Duncan Street - Duncan is to now have no sidewalk/street/curb differentiation and is to become much more like a square with special paving that will become the public space and cultural focal point of the project... the previous three tower design never really had a public realm focal point whereas this project does - the design team made comparisons to the Rockafellar Centre.
6. Previous podium was much more whimsical - but may not have been practical in our winter - new base feels a lot more "urban" and very strongly frames King & Duncan.
7. Trade-offs: 2,700 units down to 2,000 (which may actually increase the economic viability by reducing carrying costs, speeding market absorption and lowering a number of risk factors). Beyond the world of renderings and models and the political approval process – the project actually has to sell and be economically viable to become a reality.
8. Trade-offs: The new gallery space is much much smaller - with 700 fewer units and less space to work with & there were physical & cost constraints
9. Trade-offs: Mirvish losses the gallery space for his collection, but we gain a theatre that was going to be lost
10. Pure speculation, but if this project is successful, maybe in a decade Mirvish will bring a new project to Toronto for his art collection... he seemed genuinely pleased that the Princess of Wales theatre is being saved and in the past has seemed somewhat conflicted about losing the theatre.
1. For those who had become wedded to the previous design... it was still a design in flux and would have continued to evolve – what you saw what not what you were going to get anyway.
2. For 90% of projects out there, the public only sees the final or close to final design - this was a unique process in which we've been "invited" into Gehry's studio to see the many incarnations of an ever evolving design.
3. There were literally dozens of models on display at the public meeting showing variations of the proposed "skin/façade" of the new towers - they displayed variations in texture, materials and various different "ripple effects" - none of the pictures posted on the forum yet do justice to the potential details that Gehry is considering for the towers. I've read a couple comments in this thread concerned about a watered down "box" - from what was on display last night, I think it is fair to say that the "skin" of the new proposal is still very much up in the air and that Gehry has some very very interesting ideas that will be unlike anything ever built in this city.
4. Again, for those that are trashing the "bureaucrats" & planners in this process.... planning is politics period. There are a few people on this thread who became wedded to the original proposal and spend a lot of energy here on their keyboards typing away - okay great - where were you at the public meetings? Where were you at Toronto East York Community Council? with the local councilor (Vaughan deserves a lot of credit for pushing this through - I think the project would have likely failed without his involvement at the city level and would have been declined by the OMB) with the planning department, trying to get involved with the BIA, community or the working group etc? Screaming at the internet does not accomplish anything.... I think a lot of people have failed to recognize that for every "pro M-G proponent" there were a lot more highly vocal and highly motivated people against the project.
The heritage issues weren't just a "planning" issue - they were a political barrier to the project being approved. The loss of the Princess of Wales was not a "planning" issue - but it did motivate a lot of people to vocally oppose the project....As much as some people liked the pretty pictures and renderings there was a lot of very real political pressures and planning issues that stood in the way of either planning department support, council support and made for an OMB approval very very unlikely - the only solution was for various factions to work together. This is the real world, not SimCity.
5. Back to the project and something that hasn't been discussed on this thread, but that was a key point of discussion last night was the re-orientation of the new project to Duncan Street - Duncan is to now have no sidewalk/street/curb differentiation and is to become much more like a square with special paving that will become the public space and cultural focal point of the project... the previous three tower design never really had a public realm focal point whereas this project does - the design team made comparisons to the Rockafellar Centre.
6. Previous podium was much more whimsical - but may not have been practical in our winter - new base feels a lot more "urban" and very strongly frames King & Duncan.
7. Trade-offs: 2,700 units down to 2,000 (which may actually increase the economic viability by reducing carrying costs, speeding market absorption and lowering a number of risk factors). Beyond the world of renderings and models and the political approval process – the project actually has to sell and be economically viable to become a reality.
8. Trade-offs: The new gallery space is much much smaller - with 700 fewer units and less space to work with & there were physical & cost constraints
9. Trade-offs: Mirvish losses the gallery space for his collection, but we gain a theatre that was going to be lost
10. Pure speculation, but if this project is successful, maybe in a decade Mirvish will bring a new project to Toronto for his art collection... he seemed genuinely pleased that the Princess of Wales theatre is being saved and in the past has seemed somewhat conflicted about losing the theatre.
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